Recent Posts - DAFNE Online

Sep 8, 2010

Stew B 123 posts

Not that I'm obsessed you understand... found ourselves at our local McD's again yesterday evening and chose the current special from the menu, only to discover that it hadn't made it onto the nutrition list. Undaunted Mrs B approached a staff member, and the duty manager went off to his office and came back with the carb value for me. Worth knowing..

Sep 7, 2010

caroline15 45 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Carbs and cals book

I got the book before I did the Dafne course, I've also just downloaded the app onto my ipod touch (but it did cost Â£4.99). Only problem is I keep leaving the ipod at home Smile

Sep 6, 2010

Mark2 23 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Carbs and cals book

I got this book too. Yes its certainly a useful thing to have.

Only criticism I would have is that the pictures are a bit murky and hard to make out, printing quality and colour on the photo's is not particularly good. Pity because other than that it hits the nail on the head.

Sep 3, 2010

Dr Jez McCole 11 posts

Topic: Site Development / DAFNE Online iPhone application - help with content/design needed

Excellent plans Simon. Thanks again.
I think the idea of having clear + and - functions on both BG and CP entries is important and so the scroll wheels are better as they prompt you to do this. I agree with the paper diary issue. I remember asking exactly the same question as Thunderbolt on my DAFNE course in terms of the BG / CP order and understanding then that it really is what we're choosing to eat that should be the first priority, not what the BG is at the time.
Looking forward to developments and continuing to use.
Jez

Sep 3, 2010

Simon 574 posts

Topic: Site Development / DAFNE Online iPhone application - help with content/design needed

Thunderbolt - Glad you got it sorted in the end. I only built the app with support for IPhone OS Version 4 (the latest) but it should work in OS 3 and later, so with the next update I'll add in support for OS version 3. (OS = Operating System for those who don't know).

On Dr. Jez's response - the DAFNE paper diary has CP, BQ, QA then BI so I wanted to keep entry consistent with that.

Dr. Jez - All good ideas and I'll put them on the to-do list. The BG diary improvements should make it into the next update, which I'm working on now. I'm holding off on the CP ones for a bit until DAFNE Central let us know whether we can use the DAFNE Carbs list in the app or not.

One point on the entry of information - if the app uses a keyboard rather than the picker wheels which are in there at the moment we can only use apple's standard keyboards. The one I'd suggest for entering BG, CP etc would be the Numbers and Punctuation one, as we need the plus and minus keys available to show correction doses. To see what this looks like, open up a text message and press the 123 button in the bottom left of the keyboard. If this sounds OK, then let me know.

Sep 2, 2010

NiVZ 82 posts

Topic: Site Development / New Meter Upload Development

@Labsteward - thanks for testing and reporting back. I'm working on Stage 2 Smile

NiVZ

Sep 2, 2010

HelenP 218 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Introductions

Hi, Novorapidboi!

I am in Brisbane, Australia.
Life is fairly complicated at the moment and the exercise is fairly random but does not seem to be related to the periods of relatively high readings. I think it has a lot to do with sleep (or lack of it!).
Helen

Sep 2, 2010

marke 655 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Introductions

welcome helen, I'm sure she will tell you were she's from, but her user description tells you ! In Brisbane, Australia. At the start of the year I spent a lot of time converting their handbook and carb book into online versions for the site (they see their own 'versions' when they log in), so its nice to see the numbers from Oz gradually increasing. Its also good for all of us to talk to DAFNE Grads around the world, maybe get a different perspective from people in different parts of the world. We also have a number of grads fron New Zealand and have just created our first Quwait DAFNE Centre on the site which we hope will have graduates starting to sign up in the not too distant future. I am looking forward to converting an arabic handbook to an online version ;^)

Sep 2, 2010

novorapidboi26 1,818 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Introductions

Hey Helen, welcome to the forum, if you need help at the click of a button your sure to find it here, from plain old graduates like myself to healthcare professionals....

You are on quite alot of insuluin, much as I am.

I am on 17 Humulin I AM and 28 Humulin I PM and then 1.5-3 units per 10g for my meals....

I am sure it is sensitivity as well which can only be improved by firstly excercise to stimulate the muscles and so on to produce more 'doors' for the insulin to unlock and secondly drugs......

Where in the planet are you from?

Sep 1, 2010

HelenP 218 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Introductions

Hi, I'm Helen (from the other side of the planet!). Have had diabetes since 1979 and completed Dafne two years ago. Dafne was like switching on a light as I had previously believed that I really did not have that much control. Still adjusting doses etc as I seem to have periods where for no reason the BGs will run universally high for a week or so and then drop back. I am on high doses Lantus morning 45, evening 25 and a 3 to 4 novorapid for each carb (10g) portion. Total daily dose is about 100. I have been told that this could be insulin sensitivity but...
I have been thinking of joining this forum for a while so here goes. Helen

Sep 1, 2010

Byron 2 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Introductions

'but three years later I saw the same happening to me' - What you started drinking from puddles!

Lol I probably wasn't far from that, the thirst was unquenchable at times. Happily sorted now though.

Sep 1, 2010

Karl 83 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Introductions

Hi Jack

Welcome.

'but three years later I saw the same happening to me' - What you started drinking from puddles!

Glad to see another graduate from Hull actually posting :-)

Karl

Sep 1, 2010

Labsteward 6 posts

Topic: Site Development / New Meter Upload Development

Yes found cable on com30 seems to work ok

Sep 1, 2010

Labsteward 6 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Carbs and cals book

Love this book I have always like visual things and this is really easy to count carbs with . good buy thanks to the author and photographer.

Sep 1, 2010

novorapidboi26 1,818 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Introductions

Welcome to the forum Jack, the more the merrier.........

Aug 31, 2010

Byron 2 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Introductions

Greetings everyone, I'm Jack and I've just last week completed the DAFNE course - which I thought was excellent and extremely insightful. I was lucky to find myself in a very good group, filled with different levels of experience and histories, which helped a lot.

I've been diagnosed for two years - pretty much to the day. I had started noticing I was drinking much more and generally feeling fatigued a lot (I was writing a dissertation at the time, and finding days when I wasn't visiting the gym really hard going and unproductive - I even joked to my supervisor that the dissertation was killing me). I suspected diabetes because of my cat, who when he was 17 had started drinking a lot of water (including puddles), so I took him to the vet who found he had developed diabetes. He lasted a further year, but three years later I saw the same happening to me. I had to wait a few weeks for a blood test since it was summer and my GP's staff were mostly away or working through a backlog from having been away. By the time the test came I thought I was feeling much better, and considered cancelling the test, but decided to proceed and rule out silly things like diabetes. I even said to my GP I only took the test to rule out diabetes while he told me I had diabetes...

Luckily my health is holding up fine, with good glucose readings - to the point that I repeatedly get told I'm still in the honeymoon phase. I hope reading this forum will extend that good control and build on the DAFNE course for the future.

Aug 31, 2010

marke 655 posts

Topic: General Discussion / The Hospital - Channel 4

If you don't have a particular GP then address the letter to the practice manager. All surgeries have a practive manger who does as the name suggest manages the GP's , patients etc for the surgery. They should be able to resolve the issue for you. If you explain what you did on here, about duplication etc they should be able to provide all the answers. They will know if they do have online patient records and if not when they will have. They should also be able to stop you being sent the blood test stuff. They are usually very responsive because nowadays its all about patient choice ( supposedly) and you can pick and choose your GP, hospital etc. I'm not sure thats true in reality but if they think it is and it makes them take notice of patients then all the better !

Aug 31, 2010

Lizzie 87 posts

Topic: General Discussion / The Hospital - Channel 4

Marke - when you say you wrote back, who did you write to? I don't really have a GP per se, don't see them very often, and when I do it is an on-the-day appointment with whoever is the duty doctor.

Aug 31, 2010

NiVZ 82 posts

Topic: Site Development / New Meter Upload Development

Hello

Stage 1 is ready to test and Marke has kindly uploaded the file to the DAFNE online website. So for anyone who wishes to test, here's what you need to do:

1. Install Lifescan OneTouch USB Cable driver

For Windows XP install this driver: http://www.lifescan.co.uk/Data/Resources/LifeScan/Corporate/GB/en/software/USBDriverSetup.exe

For Windows 7 install this driver: http://www.prolific.com.tw/support/files/IO Cable/PL-2303/Drivers - Generic/Windows/allinone/PL2303_Prolific_DriverInstaller_v130.zip

2. Connect your data cable to the PC and wait for the Add New Hardware wizard to finish

3. Download the FINDCOM.exe from here http://www.dafneonline.co.uk/FindCOM.exe

4. Double click FINDCOM.exe (NOTE: you don't actually need to connect the meter at this stage)

You wil get a message box saying wich COM port the cable is connected to, or a message saying it could not be found.

Can you please post if it works or not back here please.

Thanks,

NiVZ

Aug 31, 2010

novorapidboi26 1,818 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Help or advice...please?

Thats good news, I have heard all good stories for pumps, in the long run anyway...

It is meant to be quite a task at the start working out your doses and delivery times, but once that is established the benefits are good....

Keep us posted.......

Aug 31, 2010

EMS 15 posts

Topic: General Discussion / back again

I know, I really hate the idea of having to rely on something outside myself to, literally, survive. I was diagnosed in 2002 and, especially the first few years, I found it all very hard to accept. In the last couple of years I've started to reconcile myself to the idea that I have this for life and that denial will only make things worse. I suppose that, in a way, managing this properly is me taking back control. If that makes any sense.

Aug 31, 2010

julee mistry 3 posts

Topic: General Discussion / back again

Hi thanks for all the ideas into regular testing. So far today I have done my morning and pre lunch. My afternoon was very high and I think I know why. I'm am so glad its not just me. Just hate feeling like this is controlling me. I'm going to keep going. Let me see if I can get a days reading.

Thank you for all the messages.

By the way I'm a teacher and I teach the little ones.

Aug 31, 2010

marke 655 posts

Topic: General Discussion / The Hospital - Channel 4

I should be careful what I say here, but I put patient care above politics so.... Your GP does want in because of money. They get paid an amount by the NHS for each Diabetic they 'treat', they also have to pay some of that to the hospital if you see a consultant/team there. Hence its in their interest for you to be treated at the GP's. It is NOT in your interest however, having been DAFNE-ed and being a Type 1 you really need to be seen by a specialist team not a GP and a Diabetic nurse. I'm not suggesting these people don't do a very good job, however to manage your diabetes in the tight way that DAFNE demands means 'generic'
advice is really no good for you. You have the right to demand to be seen by the hospital and indeed I do. I had a letter not long ago from my GP saying 'I see you HBA1c has gone up, your control is not as it
should be, you need to come and see me'. I wrote back, telling her to read my notes properly ( I have been on steriods that cause insulin resistance) and that I would not be coming to see her since I was under the
care of the hospital and that was the way it would stay. I have not been bothered by the GP since. You CAN do the same, I know its not always easy to go against 'medical' advice, but you can. If you have any problems with this, go to your PCT's website and search for PALS. This is a department dedicated to helping people with issues with the NHS/PCT/GP and they do a very good job.
This brings me nicely to your other point, about the GP accessing your hospital data, they should be able to and most probably can. If they cannot currently they WILL have to be able to soon. It is a now a requirement, however like most large UK IT projects the NHS systems are a badly managed mess ( from an IT point of view). Where I am its definately in place and my GP does have access to my data as do my various consultants ( since they know I work in IT, they show off their system to me) . It may not be in place in your PCT , but I would be suprised its not given where you are. At some point in the future YOU may also be able to access some of the data as well, the NHS has plans to put it all online, you can go here to find out more. I think it has been put on hold to a degree at the moment due to issues with confidentiality and patients having a 'proper' right to opt out.
I also take on board your point about DAFNE 'support' , obviously thats one of the things we started this site for. However there have been and ARE research projects ongoing about how to better support DAFNE graduates in the long term. This is one of the reasons that DAFNE is important as a programme as opposed to PCT invented equivalents. To provide ongoing care and improve the training, you need proper investment and research which one off courses cannot provide. The thing about DAFNE is its national, its followed up with research and a dedicated team who are constantly working on improving it.
Lastly I take your point on 'money saving' but personally I would rather the money went to the expensive doctors than the NHS management consultants ! Most of the doctors and consultants I have met have been brilliant and dedicated and deserve all the money they get. My PCT on the other hand was 5th on the list of spenders on external consultants, we don't need better management just the money going to the front line to treat people. But hey enough of the politics already :-)

Sep 8, 2010 Stew B 123 posts	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / McD's Not that I'm obsessed you understand... found ourselves at our local McD's again yesterday evening and chose the current special from the menu, only to discover that it hadn't made it onto the nutrition list. Undaunted Mrs B approached a staff member, and the duty manager went off to his office and came back with the carb value for me. Worth knowing..

Sep 7, 2010 caroline15 45 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Carbs and cals book I got the book before I did the Dafne course, I've also just downloaded the app onto my ipod touch (but it did cost Â£4.99). Only problem is I keep leaving the ipod at home

Sep 6, 2010 Mark2 23 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Carbs and cals book I got this book too. Yes its certainly a useful thing to have. Only criticism I would have is that the pictures are a bit murky and hard to make out, printing quality and colour on the photo's is not particularly good. Pity because other than that it hits the nail on the head.

Sep 3, 2010 Dr Jez McCole 11 posts	Topic: Site Development / DAFNE Online iPhone application - help with content/design needed Excellent plans Simon. Thanks again. I think the idea of having clear + and - functions on both BG and CP entries is important and so the scroll wheels are better as they prompt you to do this. I agree with the paper diary issue. I remember asking exactly the same question as Thunderbolt on my DAFNE course in terms of the BG / CP order and understanding then that it really is what we're choosing to eat that should be the first priority, not what the BG is at the time. Looking forward to developments and continuing to use. Jez

Sep 3, 2010 Simon 574 posts	Topic: Site Development / DAFNE Online iPhone application - help with content/design needed Thunderbolt - Glad you got it sorted in the end. I only built the app with support for IPhone OS Version 4 (the latest) but it should work in OS 3 and later, so with the next update I'll add in support for OS version 3. (OS = Operating System for those who don't know). On Dr. Jez's response - the DAFNE paper diary has CP, BQ, QA then BI so I wanted to keep entry consistent with that. Dr. Jez - All good ideas and I'll put them on the to-do list. The BG diary improvements should make it into the next update, which I'm working on now. I'm holding off on the CP ones for a bit until DAFNE Central let us know whether we can use the DAFNE Carbs list in the app or not. One point on the entry of information - if the app uses a keyboard rather than the picker wheels which are in there at the moment we can only use apple's standard keyboards. The one I'd suggest for entering BG, CP etc would be the Numbers and Punctuation one, as we need the plus and minus keys available to show correction doses. To see what this looks like, open up a text message and press the 123 button in the bottom left of the keyboard. If this sounds OK, then let me know.

Sep 2, 2010 NiVZ 82 posts	Topic: Site Development / New Meter Upload Development @Labsteward - thanks for testing and reporting back. I'm working on Stage 2 NiVZ

Sep 2, 2010 HelenP 218 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Introductions Hi, Novorapidboi! I am in Brisbane, Australia. Life is fairly complicated at the moment and the exercise is fairly random but does not seem to be related to the periods of relatively high readings. I think it has a lot to do with sleep (or lack of it!). Helen

Sep 2, 2010 marke 655 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Introductions welcome helen, I'm sure she will tell you were she's from, but her user description tells you ! In Brisbane, Australia. At the start of the year I spent a lot of time converting their handbook and carb book into online versions for the site (they see their own 'versions' when they log in), so its nice to see the numbers from Oz gradually increasing. Its also good for all of us to talk to DAFNE Grads around the world, maybe get a different perspective from people in different parts of the world. We also have a number of grads fron New Zealand and have just created our first Quwait DAFNE Centre on the site which we hope will have graduates starting to sign up in the not too distant future. I am looking forward to converting an arabic handbook to an online version ;^)

Sep 2, 2010 novorapidboi26 1,818 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Introductions Hey Helen, welcome to the forum, if you need help at the click of a button your sure to find it here, from plain old graduates like myself to healthcare professionals.... You are on quite alot of insuluin, much as I am. I am on 17 Humulin I AM and 28 Humulin I PM and then 1.5-3 units per 10g for my meals.... I am sure it is sensitivity as well which can only be improved by firstly excercise to stimulate the muscles and so on to produce more 'doors' for the insulin to unlock and secondly drugs...... Where in the planet are you from?

Sep 1, 2010 HelenP 218 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Introductions Hi, I'm Helen (from the other side of the planet!). Have had diabetes since 1979 and completed Dafne two years ago. Dafne was like switching on a light as I had previously believed that I really did not have that much control. Still adjusting doses etc as I seem to have periods where for no reason the BGs will run universally high for a week or so and then drop back. I am on high doses Lantus morning 45, evening 25 and a 3 to 4 novorapid for each carb (10g) portion. Total daily dose is about 100. I have been told that this could be insulin sensitivity but... I have been thinking of joining this forum for a while so here goes. Helen

Sep 1, 2010 Byron 2 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Introductions 'but three years later I saw the same happening to me' - What you started drinking from puddles! Lol I probably wasn't far from that, the thirst was unquenchable at times. Happily sorted now though.

Sep 1, 2010 Karl 83 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Introductions Hi Jack Welcome. 'but three years later I saw the same happening to me' - What you started drinking from puddles! Glad to see another graduate from Hull actually posting :-) Karl

Sep 1, 2010 Labsteward 6 posts	Topic: Site Development / New Meter Upload Development Yes found cable on com30 seems to work ok

Sep 1, 2010 Labsteward 6 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Carbs and cals book Love this book I have always like visual things and this is really easy to count carbs with . good buy thanks to the author and photographer.

Sep 1, 2010 novorapidboi26 1,818 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Introductions Welcome to the forum Jack, the more the merrier.........

Aug 31, 2010 Byron 2 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Introductions Greetings everyone, I'm Jack and I've just last week completed the DAFNE course - which I thought was excellent and extremely insightful. I was lucky to find myself in a very good group, filled with different levels of experience and histories, which helped a lot. I've been diagnosed for two years - pretty much to the day. I had started noticing I was drinking much more and generally feeling fatigued a lot (I was writing a dissertation at the time, and finding days when I wasn't visiting the gym really hard going and unproductive - I even joked to my supervisor that the dissertation was killing me). I suspected diabetes because of my cat, who when he was 17 had started drinking a lot of water (including puddles), so I took him to the vet who found he had developed diabetes. He lasted a further year, but three years later I saw the same happening to me. I had to wait a few weeks for a blood test since it was summer and my GP's staff were mostly away or working through a backlog from having been away. By the time the test came I thought I was feeling much better, and considered cancelling the test, but decided to proceed and rule out silly things like diabetes. I even said to my GP I only took the test to rule out diabetes while he told me I had diabetes... Luckily my health is holding up fine, with good glucose readings - to the point that I repeatedly get told I'm still in the honeymoon phase. I hope reading this forum will extend that good control and build on the DAFNE course for the future.

Aug 31, 2010 marke 655 posts	Topic: General Discussion / The Hospital - Channel 4 If you don't have a particular GP then address the letter to the practice manager. All surgeries have a practive manger who does as the name suggest manages the GP's , patients etc for the surgery. They should be able to resolve the issue for you. If you explain what you did on here, about duplication etc they should be able to provide all the answers. They will know if they do have online patient records and if not when they will have. They should also be able to stop you being sent the blood test stuff. They are usually very responsive because nowadays its all about patient choice ( supposedly) and you can pick and choose your GP, hospital etc. I'm not sure thats true in reality but if they think it is and it makes them take notice of patients then all the better !

Aug 31, 2010 Lizzie 87 posts	Topic: General Discussion / The Hospital - Channel 4 Marke - when you say you wrote back, who did you write to? I don't really have a GP per se, don't see them very often, and when I do it is an on-the-day appointment with whoever is the duty doctor.

Aug 31, 2010 NiVZ 82 posts	Topic: Site Development / New Meter Upload Development Hello Stage 1 is ready to test and Marke has kindly uploaded the file to the DAFNE online website. So for anyone who wishes to test, here's what you need to do: 1. Install Lifescan OneTouch USB Cable driver For Windows XP install this driver: http://www.lifescan.co.uk/Data/Resources/LifeScan/Corporate/GB/en/software/USBDriverSetup.exe For Windows 7 install this driver: http://www.prolific.com.tw/support/files/IO Cable/PL-2303/Drivers - Generic/Windows/allinone/PL2303_Prolific_DriverInstaller_v130.zip 2. Connect your data cable to the PC and wait for the Add New Hardware wizard to finish 3. Download the FINDCOM.exe from here http://www.dafneonline.co.uk/FindCOM.exe 4. Double click FINDCOM.exe (NOTE: you don't actually need to connect the meter at this stage) You wil get a message box saying wich COM port the cable is connected to, or a message saying it could not be found. Can you please post if it works or not back here please. Thanks, NiVZ

Aug 31, 2010 novorapidboi26 1,818 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Help or advice...please? Thats good news, I have heard all good stories for pumps, in the long run anyway... It is meant to be quite a task at the start working out your doses and delivery times, but once that is established the benefits are good.... Keep us posted.......

Aug 31, 2010 EMS 15 posts	Topic: General Discussion / back again I know, I really hate the idea of having to rely on something outside myself to, literally, survive. I was diagnosed in 2002 and, especially the first few years, I found it all very hard to accept. In the last couple of years I've started to reconcile myself to the idea that I have this for life and that denial will only make things worse. I suppose that, in a way, managing this properly is me taking back control. If that makes any sense.

Aug 31, 2010 julee mistry 3 posts	Topic: General Discussion / back again Hi thanks for all the ideas into regular testing. So far today I have done my morning and pre lunch. My afternoon was very high and I think I know why. I'm am so glad its not just me. Just hate feeling like this is controlling me. I'm going to keep going. Let me see if I can get a days reading. Thank you for all the messages. By the way I'm a teacher and I teach the little ones.

Aug 31, 2010 marke 655 posts	Topic: General Discussion / The Hospital - Channel 4 I should be careful what I say here, but I put patient care above politics so.... Your GP does want in because of money. They get paid an amount by the NHS for each Diabetic they 'treat', they also have to pay some of that to the hospital if you see a consultant/team there. Hence its in their interest for you to be treated at the GP's. It is NOT in your interest however, having been DAFNE-ed and being a Type 1 you really need to be seen by a specialist team not a GP and a Diabetic nurse. I'm not suggesting these people don't do a very good job, however to manage your diabetes in the tight way that DAFNE demands means 'generic' advice is really no good for you. You have the right to demand to be seen by the hospital and indeed I do. I had a letter not long ago from my GP saying 'I see you HBA1c has gone up, your control is not as it should be, you need to come and see me'. I wrote back, telling her to read my notes properly ( I have been on steriods that cause insulin resistance) and that I would not be coming to see her since I was under the care of the hospital and that was the way it would stay. I have not been bothered by the GP since. You CAN do the same, I know its not always easy to go against 'medical' advice, but you can. If you have any problems with this, go to your PCT's website and search for PALS. This is a department dedicated to helping people with issues with the NHS/PCT/GP and they do a very good job. This brings me nicely to your other point, about the GP accessing your hospital data, they should be able to and most probably can. If they cannot currently they WILL have to be able to soon. It is a now a requirement, however like most large UK IT projects the NHS systems are a badly managed mess ( from an IT point of view). Where I am its definately in place and my GP does have access to my data as do my various consultants ( since they know I work in IT, they show off their system to me) . It may not be in place in your PCT , but I would be suprised its not given where you are. At some point in the future YOU may also be able to access some of the data as well, the NHS has plans to put it all online, you can go here to find out more. I think it has been put on hold to a degree at the moment due to issues with confidentiality and patients having a 'proper' right to opt out. I also take on board your point about DAFNE 'support' , obviously thats one of the things we started this site for. However there have been and ARE research projects ongoing about how to better support DAFNE graduates in the long term. This is one of the reasons that DAFNE is important as a programme as opposed to PCT invented equivalents. To provide ongoing care and improve the training, you need proper investment and research which one off courses cannot provide. The thing about DAFNE is its national, its followed up with research and a dedicated team who are constantly working on improving it. Lastly I take your point on 'money saving' but personally I would rather the money went to the expensive doctors than the NHS management consultants ! Most of the doctors and consultants I have met have been brilliant and dedicated and deserve all the money they get. My PCT on the other hand was 5th on the list of spenders on external consultants, we don't need better management just the money going to the front line to treat people. But hey enough of the politics already :-)