Recent Posts - DAFNE Online

Nov 6, 2013

Phil Maskell 194 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG

James,

Thanks for the info, it is very similar to what I try to do with the 'drizzle', but like Warwick has said I might have too much BI.

As for mounting Accu Chek on bike, not sure I'm that good on the bike to do that while riding yet Wink

I would like a CGM to be able to just look at the direction of travel of BG at any time before eating on the bike, but they're too much money at the moment, the one off purchase wouldn't be too bad, but it would cost Â£1000s a month in pads which I couldn't do!

Thanks,

Phil

Nov 6, 2013

mum2westiesGill 502 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

Hi Louise,

Thanks for your reply. Yes maybe a split would be something worth considering but after all the recent changes with my lantus with each one being so soon after the previous one I'm going to leave it a few days now to see if/how things will settle.

I'll keep posting.

Nov 6, 2013

JMoran1983 2 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG

Hi Phil, whether you have diabetes or not, your body needs additional carbohydrate to fuel such prolonged efforts. If you watch Team Sky and the other pro teams, they are constantly eating during rides (a semi-solid rice pudding bar is one of their favourites!).

As a rule of thumb you will likely need between 30-60g carbohydrate per hour as a combination of cereal bars, sandwiches, sports drinks and gels. As Warwick advised it is a good idea to get some of your carbohydrate intake from lower GI sources (sandwiches, cereal bars etc), these are particularly useful in the earlier parts of the ride up to the last hour.

Rather than waiting until you are hungry or your BGs start to drop, try to work out a strategy of taking on the additional carbohydrate at regular intervals as a "drizzle" during the ride at regular intervals. It will take practice to train your gut and will require a bit of planning and BG monitoring to see how your body responds. .

I've even heard of riders mounting their meter such as an Accu Check Mobile onto the handle bars but be extremely careful if you do this!?

Ask to see the Dietitian at your hospital to help come up with a nutritional plan for when you are exercising.

Regards

James

Nov 6, 2013

Phil Maskell 194 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG

Warwick,

Thanks for the response, yeah I have the Accu Chek Mobile, but I still need to stop to do a test, which is fine if I'm out on my own, but in a group its a bit harder, often have to guess if I'm hypo or tired!

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head with too much BI and possibly a bit more QA.

On really long rides we do stop for food, I try to have slow GI carbs such as potatoes, rice or pasta which helps.

The lentil loaf idea is also good, I could have it for breakfast (bit strange I know) to keep some carbs on board for the whole day.

Hope this thread helps other endurance atheletes too, not that I'm an athelete as such!

Phil

Nov 6, 2013

Louise1988 68 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

Hm. Regardless of the night hypo, 11 down to 5 is still a big drop. Did you do a correction dose before bed? It looks like the 18u all in one go may be a bit much, might be worth splitting your dose, 9 at night, 9 in the morning. Give it a few days, and see what happens.

Nov 6, 2013

mum2westiesGill 502 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

11.7 - 22:49pm - bedtime
- decreased lantus from 20u to 18u
- rich tea biscuits x 2 (5.6g carbs each = 11.2g total)
- 3.2 - 03.45am - the hypo woke me up - then 5.6 - 04:00am
5.5 - 08:01am - fasting

lantus decreases:
Tue 29.10 from 24u to 22u
Sat 02.10 from 22u to 20u
Tue 6.11 from 20u to 18u

Nov 6, 2013

Warwick 430 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG

Having to take more carbs than you want to sounds like your basal insulin is still too high. You may want to reduce it even more, and then take extra QA at breakfast to address any pre-ride high.

Are you able to take QA on your rides, or is it fairly non-stop?

I can't stand the gels. I save them for when I really, really need quick carb. I use sports drink, but I get sick of that pretty quickly too. Are you having lunch on your 10 hour rides? If so, then I'd recommend taking something that is low-GI so that the carbs get released slowly into the blood stream as opposed to the gels where they will do a big dump of sugar into the blood stream.

I find that food such as lentils and beans are really good, because they release sugar into the blood stream for about 8 hours. Something like this is really good:

http://vegetarian.about.com/od/maindishentreerecipes/r/ricelentilloaf.htm

If your meter is a bit difficult to test with while riding, then look at getting a meter just for cycling like the Accu Chek Mobile. It doesn't leave any mess to clean up (testing strips) as it is all internal, so you can test really quickly, and then continue.

Hope that helps,
Warwick

Nov 5, 2013

Googum 15 posts

Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / chestnuts

Yes Hypo i did the course in october 2013 and enjoy your chestnuts.

Nov 5, 2013

Phil Maskell 194 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG

Hi,

Over the last year I have taken up cycling, I am having real problems with BG.

I don't seem to have too many problems under 3 hour rides, but i seem to struggle on longer rides, especially if I go with a group as it is awkward to keep testing.

I know it seems counter intuitive, but before a big ride (5+ hours) I half my morning BI and have a normal breakfast like porridge, with sugar unlike normal and a few units of QA. Everything seems fine during the ride for the first few hours and if we stop I test and it's normally ok, but hours in my BG usually plummets and I struggle to have enough energy gels. On 10+ hour rides I get to the point where I feel ill from the acidic nature of the energy gels!

Sometimes on a group ride I will feel hypo and have a gel without testing only to find I was knackered not hypo and my BG is 15+ and this makes me feel lethargic on the bike along with being knackered!

I am never sure on long rides if I am going to overdo it with gels and feel bad or not have enough gels to cope with the dropping BG. Does anyone else do endurance sports and have problems?

This whole situation is getting me down as other people in the cycling group don't have to deal with this rubbish, on a long ride I will take about 20+ gels and energy bars with me! other people in the group take 2 or 3!

Thanks,

Phil

Nov 5, 2013

mum2westiesGill 502 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

Louise1988 said:
The fact that you've woken up low in the morning, a few days in a row, I think your lantus may still be a bit too high? How about decreasing again to 18u? Try that for a few days, see what happens?

Hi Louise,
Sorry I didn't reply earlier.

I know it's said with lantus that with any changes it can take 3 days for any changes to start taking effect and another 3 for them to settle down and take full effect but even though it was only last Saturday when I last made a change I'm decreasing it by another 2u tonight so from 20u to 18.

One thing we were taught on the Insulin X-Pert course was that you're always welcome to ask your DSNs for their advice but at the end of the day they will always say "what do YOU think you should do?" "what would YOU be happiest doing?" Bit of a ramble here but the other week when I phoned the DSN (re my latest problems) from the drop in clinic who also works at the hospital (where I have a contact number for) & who also did my X-Pert course she reminded me of this.

Nov 5, 2013

hypo 18 posts

Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / chestnuts

Thanks for that Googum I am rather fond of chestnuts I see that you are also a SRNHSFT graduate as I am

Nov 5, 2013

Googum 15 posts

Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / chestnuts

About 30G to 35G carbs per 100G

Nov 5, 2013

hypo 18 posts

Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / chestnuts

Does anybody know the carb content of chestnuts either roasted or boiled as I can't seem to find any reference to them so wondering if they are carb free

Nov 5, 2013

Louise1988 68 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

The fact that you've woken up low in the morning, a few days in a row, I think your lantus may still be a bit too high? How about decreasing again to 18u? Try that for a few days, see what happens?

Nov 5, 2013

mum2westiesGill 502 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

7.7 - 22:33pm - bedtime
- no snacking during the evening
- 2.8 - 03:10am - the hypo woke me up - then 5.4 - 03:26am
5.8 - 7:24am - fasting - then 3.4 - 8:50am - then 6.3 - 9:06

lantus decreases:
Tue 29.10 from 24u to 22u
Sat 02.10 from 22u to 20u

Nov 5, 2013

Mike87 10 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Suggestions

Thanks everyone for the advice, ketones were a massive issue but it's finally back in track now. Much appreciated

Nov 5, 2013

jae0212 3 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Exercise & BG levels

Hi Hannah - i think your liver is putting out glycogen so that means you could perhaps take more CPs before your run or your liver will keep pumpimg out the stuff.How are your BG's over the other parts of the day ? It's a good idea to look @ a whole day rather than a little slice. Wich reminds me I best ready myself for dinner !Good luck Hanna

Nov 5, 2013

jae0212 3 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Suggestions

Whoops I meant to send reply to Mike87 Sorry

Nov 5, 2013

jae0212 3 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Suggestions

Warwick, Hope you are ok now. As long as you follow the SICK DAYS Rules you should manage well. :

Nov 4, 2013

Louise1988 68 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

It doesn't have to be dead on 3am, it could be 2.30-3.30 for example. I think it's worth doing, as you'll be able to see if your bg levels go up, before plummeting in the morning.

Nov 4, 2013

mum2westiesGill 502 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Whiskysmum - WEEKLY DIARY

All comments/help welcomed

Nov 4, 2013

mum2westiesGill 502 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Whiskysmum - WEEKLY DIARY

All comments/help welcomed

Nov 4, 2013

mum2westiesGill 502 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

Louise1988 said:
wow, whiskysmum, you have a lot of hypos. Have you tried any 3am tests, to see if your background insulin is too high?

Hi Louise,
Yes a very of hypos! I've had other people from another forum saying my lantus is too high. Re the 3am basal tests is it ok to do it around that time or does it have to be on the exact 3:00am mark?

Nov 4, 2013

Louise1988 68 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

wow, whiskysmum, you have a lot of hypos. Have you tried any 3am tests, to see if your background insulin is too high?

Nov 4, 2013

mum2westiesGill 502 posts

Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average

Sun 27.10
10.5 - bedtime
4.4 - fasting/breaKfast

Mon 28.10
18.0 - bedtime
3.7 - fasting/hypo

Tue 29.10
6.8 - bedtime
2.9 fasting/hypo

Wed 30.10
6.5 - bedtime
10.7 - fasting

Thu 31.10
12.9 - bedtime
10.3 - fasting

Fri 01.11
4.7 - bedtime
3.1 - fasting/hypo

Sat 02.11
7.4 - bedtime
2.5 - fasting/hypo

Nov 6, 2013 Phil Maskell 194 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG James, Thanks for the info, it is very similar to what I try to do with the 'drizzle', but like Warwick has said I might have too much BI. As for mounting Accu Chek on bike, not sure I'm that good on the bike to do that while riding yet I would like a CGM to be able to just look at the direction of travel of BG at any time before eating on the bike, but they're too much money at the moment, the one off purchase wouldn't be too bad, but it would cost Â£1000s a month in pads which I couldn't do! Thanks, Phil

Nov 6, 2013 mum2westiesGill 502 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average Hi Louise, Thanks for your reply. Yes maybe a split would be something worth considering but after all the recent changes with my lantus with each one being so soon after the previous one I'm going to leave it a few days now to see if/how things will settle. I'll keep posting.

Nov 6, 2013 JMoran1983 2 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG Hi Phil, whether you have diabetes or not, your body needs additional carbohydrate to fuel such prolonged efforts. If you watch Team Sky and the other pro teams, they are constantly eating during rides (a semi-solid rice pudding bar is one of their favourites!). As a rule of thumb you will likely need between 30-60g carbohydrate per hour as a combination of cereal bars, sandwiches, sports drinks and gels. As Warwick advised it is a good idea to get some of your carbohydrate intake from lower GI sources (sandwiches, cereal bars etc), these are particularly useful in the earlier parts of the ride up to the last hour. Rather than waiting until you are hungry or your BGs start to drop, try to work out a strategy of taking on the additional carbohydrate at regular intervals as a "drizzle" during the ride at regular intervals. It will take practice to train your gut and will require a bit of planning and BG monitoring to see how your body responds. . I've even heard of riders mounting their meter such as an Accu Check Mobile onto the handle bars but be extremely careful if you do this!? Ask to see the Dietitian at your hospital to help come up with a nutritional plan for when you are exercising. Regards James

Nov 6, 2013 Phil Maskell 194 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG Warwick, Thanks for the response, yeah I have the Accu Chek Mobile, but I still need to stop to do a test, which is fine if I'm out on my own, but in a group its a bit harder, often have to guess if I'm hypo or tired! I think you've probably hit the nail on the head with too much BI and possibly a bit more QA. On really long rides we do stop for food, I try to have slow GI carbs such as potatoes, rice or pasta which helps. The lentil loaf idea is also good, I could have it for breakfast (bit strange I know) to keep some carbs on board for the whole day. Hope this thread helps other endurance atheletes too, not that I'm an athelete as such! Phil

Nov 6, 2013 Louise1988 68 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average Hm. Regardless of the night hypo, 11 down to 5 is still a big drop. Did you do a correction dose before bed? It looks like the 18u all in one go may be a bit much, might be worth splitting your dose, 9 at night, 9 in the morning. Give it a few days, and see what happens.

Nov 6, 2013 mum2westiesGill 502 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average 11.7 - 22:49pm - bedtime - decreased lantus from 20u to 18u - rich tea biscuits x 2 (5.6g carbs each = 11.2g total) - 3.2 - 03.45am - the hypo woke me up - then 5.6 - 04:00am 5.5 - 08:01am - fasting lantus decreases: Tue 29.10 from 24u to 22u Sat 02.10 from 22u to 20u Tue 6.11 from 20u to 18u

Nov 6, 2013 Warwick 430 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG Having to take more carbs than you want to sounds like your basal insulin is still too high. You may want to reduce it even more, and then take extra QA at breakfast to address any pre-ride high. Are you able to take QA on your rides, or is it fairly non-stop? I can't stand the gels. I save them for when I really, really need quick carb. I use sports drink, but I get sick of that pretty quickly too. Are you having lunch on your 10 hour rides? If so, then I'd recommend taking something that is low-GI so that the carbs get released slowly into the blood stream as opposed to the gels where they will do a big dump of sugar into the blood stream. I find that food such as lentils and beans are really good, because they release sugar into the blood stream for about 8 hours. Something like this is really good: http://vegetarian.about.com/od/maindishentreerecipes/r/ricelentilloaf.htm If your meter is a bit difficult to test with while riding, then look at getting a meter just for cycling like the Accu Chek Mobile. It doesn't leave any mess to clean up (testing strips) as it is all internal, so you can test really quickly, and then continue. Hope that helps, Warwick

Nov 5, 2013 Googum 15 posts	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / chestnuts Yes Hypo i did the course in october 2013 and enjoy your chestnuts.

Nov 5, 2013 Phil Maskell 194 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Endurance Exercise and BG Hi, Over the last year I have taken up cycling, I am having real problems with BG. I don't seem to have too many problems under 3 hour rides, but i seem to struggle on longer rides, especially if I go with a group as it is awkward to keep testing. I know it seems counter intuitive, but before a big ride (5+ hours) I half my morning BI and have a normal breakfast like porridge, with sugar unlike normal and a few units of QA. Everything seems fine during the ride for the first few hours and if we stop I test and it's normally ok, but hours in my BG usually plummets and I struggle to have enough energy gels. On 10+ hour rides I get to the point where I feel ill from the acidic nature of the energy gels! Sometimes on a group ride I will feel hypo and have a gel without testing only to find I was knackered not hypo and my BG is 15+ and this makes me feel lethargic on the bike along with being knackered! I am never sure on long rides if I am going to overdo it with gels and feel bad or not have enough gels to cope with the dropping BG. Does anyone else do endurance sports and have problems? This whole situation is getting me down as other people in the cycling group don't have to deal with this rubbish, on a long ride I will take about 20+ gels and energy bars with me! other people in the group take 2 or 3! Thanks, Phil

Nov 5, 2013 mum2westiesGill 502 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average Louise1988 said: The fact that you've woken up low in the morning, a few days in a row, I think your lantus may still be a bit too high? How about decreasing again to 18u? Try that for a few days, see what happens? Hi Louise, Sorry I didn't reply earlier. I know it's said with lantus that with any changes it can take 3 days for any changes to start taking effect and another 3 for them to settle down and take full effect but even though it was only last Saturday when I last made a change I'm decreasing it by another 2u tonight so from 20u to 18. One thing we were taught on the Insulin X-Pert course was that you're always welcome to ask your DSNs for their advice but at the end of the day they will always say "what do YOU think you should do?" "what would YOU be happiest doing?" Bit of a ramble here but the other week when I phoned the DSN (re my latest problems) from the drop in clinic who also works at the hospital (where I have a contact number for) & who also did my X-Pert course she reminded me of this.

Nov 5, 2013 hypo 18 posts	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / chestnuts Thanks for that Googum I am rather fond of chestnuts I see that you are also a SRNHSFT graduate as I am

Nov 5, 2013 Googum 15 posts	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / chestnuts About 30G to 35G carbs per 100G

Nov 5, 2013 hypo 18 posts	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / chestnuts Does anybody know the carb content of chestnuts either roasted or boiled as I can't seem to find any reference to them so wondering if they are carb free

Nov 5, 2013 Louise1988 68 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average The fact that you've woken up low in the morning, a few days in a row, I think your lantus may still be a bit too high? How about decreasing again to 18u? Try that for a few days, see what happens?

Nov 5, 2013 mum2westiesGill 502 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average 7.7 - 22:33pm - bedtime - no snacking during the evening - 2.8 - 03:10am - the hypo woke me up - then 5.4 - 03:26am 5.8 - 7:24am - fasting - then 3.4 - 8:50am - then 6.3 - 9:06 lantus decreases: Tue 29.10 from 24u to 22u Sat 02.10 from 22u to 20u

Nov 5, 2013 Mike87 10 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Suggestions Thanks everyone for the advice, ketones were a massive issue but it's finally back in track now. Much appreciated

Nov 5, 2013 jae0212 3 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Exercise & BG levels Hi Hannah - i think your liver is putting out glycogen so that means you could perhaps take more CPs before your run or your liver will keep pumpimg out the stuff.How are your BG's over the other parts of the day ? It's a good idea to look @ a whole day rather than a little slice. Wich reminds me I best ready myself for dinner !Good luck Hanna

Nov 5, 2013 jae0212 3 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Suggestions Whoops I meant to send reply to Mike87 Sorry

Nov 5, 2013 jae0212 3 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Suggestions Warwick, Hope you are ok now. As long as you follow the SICK DAYS Rules you should manage well. :

Nov 4, 2013 Louise1988 68 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average It doesn't have to be dead on 3am, it could be 2.30-3.30 for example. I think it's worth doing, as you'll be able to see if your bg levels go up, before plummeting in the morning.

Nov 4, 2013 mum2westiesGill 502 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Whiskysmum - WEEKLY DIARY All comments/help welcomed

Nov 4, 2013 mum2westiesGill 502 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Whiskysmum - WEEKLY DIARY All comments/help welcomed

Nov 4, 2013 mum2westiesGill 502 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average Louise1988 said: wow, whiskysmum, you have a lot of hypos. Have you tried any 3am tests, to see if your background insulin is too high? Hi Louise, Yes a very of hypos! I've had other people from another forum saying my lantus is too high. Re the 3am basal tests is it ok to do it around that time or does it have to be on the exact 3:00am mark?

Nov 4, 2013 Louise1988 68 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average wow, whiskysmum, you have a lot of hypos. Have you tried any 3am tests, to see if your background insulin is too high?

Nov 4, 2013 mum2westiesGill 502 posts	Topic: General Discussion / 7-day waking average Sun 27.10 10.5 - bedtime 4.4 - fasting/breaKfast Mon 28.10 18.0 - bedtime 3.7 - fasting/hypo Tue 29.10 6.8 - bedtime 2.9 fasting/hypo Wed 30.10 6.5 - bedtime 10.7 - fasting Thu 31.10 12.9 - bedtime 10.3 - fasting Fri 01.11 4.7 - bedtime 3.1 - fasting/hypo Sat 02.11 7.4 - bedtime 2.5 - fasting/hypo