Recent Posts - DAFNE Online

Mar 18, 2010

Snjstar 2 posts

Topic: General Discussion / What meter are you using?

Onetouch Ultra Easy

Mar 17, 2010

Simon 574 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Bayer Contour USB Meter

Nothing really to comment on the changing meter debate - my UltraSmart is looking pretty tired now, but I'd probably just exchange for a new one of them. Though I do like gadgets, so given something more high tech I may change my mind ;)

On Ruby - yes the site is coded in Ruby so both Mark and I have some experience in it. I wonder how we would package a Ruby app - there is an interpreter that needs to be installed before it can be 'run' so would users need to install this to run it? I've not had experience of making Ruby desktop apps so can't comment on that... Yet.

On the Contour USB meter - I'm sure they have some sort of API (Java, Proprietary or Otherwise) to interface with a meter, it's just a matter of getting hold of it (legitimately or otherwise).

Mar 17, 2010

Tracey Bond 14 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Snacks

Hi Carbtastic................................ If you have a snack of more than 1CP an hour of less before your next meal then either take the insulin at the time of snack or with your meal, however if your snack is eaten more than 1 hour before your next meal take the insulin at the time of the snack. Don't have any corrections at meal time if your BG is elevated as the insulinn you had at the time of the snack will account for it. I know it's confusing but it will sink in, I promise.

Mar 17, 2010

Carbtastic 8 posts

Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Cherries

I finished Dafne last week and was told that grapefruit and cherries are the only fruit which you dont count! It was news to me but i like it!

Mar 17, 2010

Carbtastic 8 posts

Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Indian food and takeways

Me too! I completely gave up eating chinese take aways as every dish just seemed to be full of sugar. The same appears to go for curry, the sauces are always so thick and sweet. It's not even authentic curry! I have found a good one near me which is an exception to this rule and uses very little sugar however, this is rare!

Mar 17, 2010

Carbtastic 8 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Snacks

Ive just completed Dafne and Im still trying to get my head round all the rules! Im a bit confused about snacks. If for example I have a 3CP Snack at 3pm then have my evening meal at 6pm would I take a correction dose if my BG was high before my meal? As the QA from my snack would still be working I didnt know whether too or not. Can anyone help? Thanks!

Mar 17, 2010

Carbtastic 8 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Random question!

Does anyone know the carb content of fruit pudding? I had it with my cooked breakfast and didnt even know what I could compare it to!

Mar 17, 2010

Carbtastic 8 posts

Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Watch out - Corn on the cob!

You apparently dont count the carbs in corn because of the high fibre content. I dont count it and dont have problems.

Mar 17, 2010

Jennie 1 post

Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Indian food and takeways

I get the impression that takeaways (Indian in particular) are not just full of fat and salt, but also often have loads of added sugar.
Saucey curries that I've not made myself often raise my BG in serious excess of what I'd expect.

Mar 17, 2010

NiVZ 82 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Bayer Contour USB Meter

Hello,

Tried out the Contour USB last night. It was a little bigger than I expected (only slightly smaller than my UltrEASY).

It does appear to be a very good meter, although as Mark says it doesn't do too much differently.

The Pro's are it uses a TINY amount of blood and the result takes a very quick 3 seconds. It's also useful having the software right there on the device so you can connect it to the PC and see the graphs etc, although for Windows you do need to have Java Runtime installed.

Con's - The carrying pouch is quite large (bigger than my ultraEASY) and the lancing device isn't quite as good as I'd expected.

Overall I do really like it as a meter and it is another step forward, albeit not a huge jump. One more difficulty for me is it looks like it's going to be tough to get at the raw data for my program. It doesn't use a COM port at all. It appears asa USB Composite device with a USB STOR to hold 500mb of your own files, plus an HID device. I'm guessing it's the HID part that handles the communication and Data so I'm off to email Bayer to see if they'll lend a hand.

I've just printed the license agreement for Lifescan so hoepfully get back to looking at the UltraSmart as soon as I get their protocol document ;o)

I could finish both the Lifescan meters just now, but I'm hoping to get things like the number of records stored on the meter so I can do progress bars, etc and also get at the Insulin and Carb info from the UltraSMART to eliminate manual entries altogether ;)

NiVZ

Mar 17, 2010

marke 655 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Bayer Contour USB Meter

I don't think its a simple cost comparison though. The costs of Diabetes are complex, if the right meter means you test regularly and have better control and hence avoid a hypo that results in hospital treatment or avoid complications then that is a major saving to the NHS regardless of the cost of the test strips. I apprciate your concerns relating to cost but its a very complex area.
I personnally would not change my meter to the latest and greatest unless I thought there would be a benefit to me. I'm interested in what is available and maybe trying out a new meter, but if it provided no benefit I would stick with my current one. Looking at the Accu-check mobile it STILL has an infra-red interface for connecting to a PC , so I would steer well clear of it. It seems Roche are determined to stay in the 80's while technology moves on. I'm not sure of what the benefits are supposed to be, it has an 'attached' finger pricker and supposedly no test strips to handle, but I can't really rate that as a benefit. I still need to prick my finger, I still need to put blood on the meter so no change there really. I prefer the lifescan ultrasmart. I can enter carbs and other stuff as well as recording BG's and it has a sensible USB interface that works reliably with a PC. We can also read the meter directly for uploading to the site, once the app to do it is complete. I would like to get hold of a Contour USB just to play with it and see if its better, but I wouldn't swap to it unless it is an improvement on my current meter.

Mar 16, 2010

Matilda 2 posts

Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Glucotabs: Where they can be found?

I get mine on prescription

Mar 16, 2010

marke 655 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Diabetes and minor illness

no never experienced this, but personal experience is that GP's know about as much about Diabetes as the general public :-( Mine was impressed by 'modern' insulin pens, which told me straight away that I would be staying under my local hospital for Diabetes support for as long as possible. I don't really see why Diabetes would make yoor immune system work harder. If you are well controlled your immmune system is pretty much like everyone elses, with the exception that it ate all your islet cells of course ;^)
I do find it can push up my BG's though which 'could' be what is happening to you, what are your BG's when this happens ? higher, lower ?

Mar 16, 2010

NiVZ 82 posts

Topic: Site Development / Meter Upload Development

Hello,

Not had a chance to do more testing, but I have received the papers from Lifescan to sign to give me access to the UltraSMART protocol, and Bayer have kindly donated me a Contour USB to see if I can get it working too.

NiVZ

Mar 16, 2010

NiVZ 82 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Bayer Contour USB Meter

Hello

I've read that Ruby is corss platform and that theres a serial library for it. Simon, I think you mentioned you had done a bit of Ruby programming. Not sure if that would be an option?

To be honest I've not got any Linux programming experience so it would be a big task to try and figure all that out. I know a lot about Windows and have done plenty of programming and it's been a big challenge getting it to where it is already. Using the AutoIT language was purely for convenience. It's very like Visual Basic syntax, great for rapid prototyping, we use it at work a lot and someone had already started a Serial COM programme so all the pieces just came together at the right time.

I'm open to suggestions though and happy to help anyone else get as far as I have if they fancy giving it a go. Figuring out the meter 'language' was the hardest part but once you get it you just basically make sure the meter is ready (initialise) and then ask a question (transmit) and get a reply (recieve) and when you're finished end (disconnect).

I've added some extra stuff like trying to automatically figure out which COM port the meter is connected to so that the program is easier to use.

NiVZ

Mar 15, 2010

Rachie Wilson 9 posts

Topic: General Discussion / How good is dafne

Hi Vic

I do suffer from some hypo's but i usually know when my bloods are dropping as i get really bad headaches. Mine tend to be mid morning or mid afternoon but I have only been on DAFNE since Jan so still a bit of trial and error to be honest. I also do tend to get high's on a morning only and then for the rest of the day I am fine. I really didn't expect my HBAC1 to have dropped that much in such a short time but i am really pleased that it has. I am back for a review tomorrow with the group that did DAFNE in Jan so i am really looking forward to seeing how everyone else is doing.

Mar 15, 2010

Adam Taylor 1 post

Topic: General Discussion / Diabetes and minor illness

I have been diabetic for about seven years now. In the past few years I have found that whenever I'm coming down with a cold or a minor bug, often a couple of days before any other symptoms, I'll find that I'm really tired - to the point of falling asleep at work or not being able to get up in the morning.

The first couple of times this happened I went to my GP and he said that my immune system was having to work harder due to the diabetes so fighting the bug made me tired.

Has anyone else ever experienced this?

Mar 15, 2010

nbraidwood 2 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Advice on sugar levels after exercise

Thank you all for your input. From reading all your responses I think I have the answer. I tend to exercise around 6pm, which is more than 4 hours after my lunchtime QA insulin and just before my split background insulin, so the answer is that I don't have any insulin in my system to handle the energy my body pumps out. I'll try out giving myself a small injection beforehand (assuming my sugar level allows) and see how I get on. For those of you interested I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks again all......

Mar 15, 2010

qprfcmark 3 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Lantus Lasting 24 hours?

Diabetic nurse advised me to split the 22 units of Lantus at 22:00 into 2 separate doses of 12 units at 22:00 and 10 units at 08:00. The results were instant and the BG levels at 18:00 & 22:00 are now on target, so Lantus is now lasting the 24 hour cycle! Regards Mark.

Mar 15, 2010

vic demain 87 posts

Topic: General Discussion / How good is dafne

Hi,

I have probably worded it wrong. We were told on the course that there shouldn't be the need to test more than four times per day, and not to test just for the sake of it. Of course if one feels low then it would be natural to test and confirm.
Not concerned about my Lantus running out before the 24 hrs, as I have morning hypo's as well as the occasional high. Fay, I think a one unit adjustment pen would be good for me thanks.
Rachie, glad all is going well for you and congratulations on the great results. Given such low overall figures, do you suffer many hypo's?

Regards, Vic.

Mar 15, 2010

Rachie Wilson 9 posts

Topic: General Discussion / How good is dafne

Hi

I have been on DAFNE since the middle of Jan this year and my HBAC1 was 8.3 just had my HBAC1 done again and it has come down to 6.6 which I am really please about. I really didn't think i would be able to get my HBAC1 down as i always seemed to stick between 7.7-8.3 and have been now for the last two years. Thanks to going on DAFNE i have managed to get it back into target.

Mar 15, 2010

marke 655 posts

Topic: General Discussion / Advice on sugar levels after exercise

Hi, You don't say when you are exercising in relation to your injections. You are not experiencing an 'artificial high' as Alan says its your body pumping out 'energy' for your muscles to
use that causes the high and without insulin to make use of it, it stays in your blood. The issue may be that your QA has worn off and so your don't have any insulin to help 'process' the blood sugar. Correction doses after exercise are not a good idea. The effects of exercise can last upto 24 hours afterwards and as soon as you put insulin into your system all that
blood sugar can then be used lowering your BG. Thats why its recommended that you reduce your BI before exercise.
Without the missing info its hard to give any advice, the same goes for Debs, when you say you exercised before breakfast, is this before any injections ? if so that would make sense for the reasons above, no insulin to process the blood sugar. you have to think about the insulin profile ( its in the DAFNE handbook) and the effect it will have on exercise and food intake. Its important to remember the after effect of exercise as well as this can catch you out hours later ( or even the next day).

Mar 15, 2010

marke 655 posts

Topic: General Discussion / How good is dafne

Vic, I am shocked your were told only to do 4 test per day. I was told to test as many times as necessary and to test more if I'm ill or changing ratio's etc. I was never told that there was 'no need to do more'. If ever you feel low then do a test regardless of the number you have done already.
With regards to hypos, it does sound like your background was not correct. I suspect the morning high results are due to the 'dawn phenomenon' (see posts in 'Questions for HCPs' forum), I like probably many other people have the same issue with morning BG's. The problem is BI is probably not going to fix the issue. I won't replicate the discussions here as it has been covered on the other forum. Is it possible to split Lantus into two doses ? Maybe a question for your Diabetes team, I am on Levimir and find it much better now I have split it too two doses one in the evening and one in the morning. I know BI is supposed to be largely even over 24 hours but the reality is often different and splitting it may help resolve the issue, but thats something to decide on advice from experts ( rather than other graduates)

Mar 14, 2010

danny mcgeehan 2 posts

Topic: General Discussion / What meter are you using?

Optium Xceed

Mar 18, 2010 Snjstar 2 posts	Topic: General Discussion / What meter are you using? Onetouch Ultra Easy

Mar 17, 2010 Simon 574 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Bayer Contour USB Meter Nothing really to comment on the changing meter debate - my UltraSmart is looking pretty tired now, but I'd probably just exchange for a new one of them. Though I do like gadgets, so given something more high tech I may change my mind ;) On Ruby - yes the site is coded in Ruby so both Mark and I have some experience in it. I wonder how we would package a Ruby app - there is an interpreter that needs to be installed before it can be 'run' so would users need to install this to run it? I've not had experience of making Ruby desktop apps so can't comment on that... Yet. On the Contour USB meter - I'm sure they have some sort of API (Java, Proprietary or Otherwise) to interface with a meter, it's just a matter of getting hold of it (legitimately or otherwise).

Mar 17, 2010 Tracey Bond 14 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Snacks Hi Carbtastic................................ If you have a snack of more than 1CP an hour of less before your next meal then either take the insulin at the time of snack or with your meal, however if your snack is eaten more than 1 hour before your next meal take the insulin at the time of the snack. Don't have any corrections at meal time if your BG is elevated as the insulinn you had at the time of the snack will account for it. I know it's confusing but it will sink in, I promise.

Mar 17, 2010 Carbtastic 8 posts	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Cherries I finished Dafne last week and was told that grapefruit and cherries are the only fruit which you dont count! It was news to me but i like it!

Mar 17, 2010 Carbtastic 8 posts	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Indian food and takeways Me too! I completely gave up eating chinese take aways as every dish just seemed to be full of sugar. The same appears to go for curry, the sauces are always so thick and sweet. It's not even authentic curry! I have found a good one near me which is an exception to this rule and uses very little sugar however, this is rare!

Mar 17, 2010 Carbtastic 8 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Snacks Ive just completed Dafne and Im still trying to get my head round all the rules! Im a bit confused about snacks. If for example I have a 3CP Snack at 3pm then have my evening meal at 6pm would I take a correction dose if my BG was high before my meal? As the QA from my snack would still be working I didnt know whether too or not. Can anyone help? Thanks!

Mar 17, 2010 Carbtastic 8 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Random question! Does anyone know the carb content of fruit pudding? I had it with my cooked breakfast and didnt even know what I could compare it to!

Mar 17, 2010 Carbtastic 8 posts	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Watch out - Corn on the cob! You apparently dont count the carbs in corn because of the high fibre content. I dont count it and dont have problems.

Mar 17, 2010 Jennie 1 post	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Indian food and takeways I get the impression that takeaways (Indian in particular) are not just full of fat and salt, but also often have loads of added sugar. Saucey curries that I've not made myself often raise my BG in serious excess of what I'd expect.

Mar 17, 2010 NiVZ 82 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Bayer Contour USB Meter Hello, Tried out the Contour USB last night. It was a little bigger than I expected (only slightly smaller than my UltrEASY). It does appear to be a very good meter, although as Mark says it doesn't do too much differently. The Pro's are it uses a TINY amount of blood and the result takes a very quick 3 seconds. It's also useful having the software right there on the device so you can connect it to the PC and see the graphs etc, although for Windows you do need to have Java Runtime installed. Con's - The carrying pouch is quite large (bigger than my ultraEASY) and the lancing device isn't quite as good as I'd expected. Overall I do really like it as a meter and it is another step forward, albeit not a huge jump. One more difficulty for me is it looks like it's going to be tough to get at the raw data for my program. It doesn't use a COM port at all. It appears asa USB Composite device with a USB STOR to hold 500mb of your own files, plus an HID device. I'm guessing it's the HID part that handles the communication and Data so I'm off to email Bayer to see if they'll lend a hand. I've just printed the license agreement for Lifescan so hoepfully get back to looking at the UltraSmart as soon as I get their protocol document ;o) I could finish both the Lifescan meters just now, but I'm hoping to get things like the number of records stored on the meter so I can do progress bars, etc and also get at the Insulin and Carb info from the UltraSMART to eliminate manual entries altogether ;) NiVZ

Mar 17, 2010 marke 655 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Bayer Contour USB Meter I don't think its a simple cost comparison though. The costs of Diabetes are complex, if the right meter means you test regularly and have better control and hence avoid a hypo that results in hospital treatment or avoid complications then that is a major saving to the NHS regardless of the cost of the test strips. I apprciate your concerns relating to cost but its a very complex area. I personnally would not change my meter to the latest and greatest unless I thought there would be a benefit to me. I'm interested in what is available and maybe trying out a new meter, but if it provided no benefit I would stick with my current one. Looking at the Accu-check mobile it STILL has an infra-red interface for connecting to a PC , so I would steer well clear of it. It seems Roche are determined to stay in the 80's while technology moves on. I'm not sure of what the benefits are supposed to be, it has an 'attached' finger pricker and supposedly no test strips to handle, but I can't really rate that as a benefit. I still need to prick my finger, I still need to put blood on the meter so no change there really. I prefer the lifescan ultrasmart. I can enter carbs and other stuff as well as recording BG's and it has a sensible USB interface that works reliably with a PC. We can also read the meter directly for uploading to the site, once the app to do it is complete. I would like to get hold of a Contour USB just to play with it and see if its better, but I wouldn't swap to it unless it is an improvement on my current meter.

Mar 16, 2010 Matilda 2 posts	Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Glucotabs: Where they can be found? I get mine on prescription

Mar 16, 2010 marke 655 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Diabetes and minor illness no never experienced this, but personal experience is that GP's know about as much about Diabetes as the general public :-( Mine was impressed by 'modern' insulin pens, which told me straight away that I would be staying under my local hospital for Diabetes support for as long as possible. I don't really see why Diabetes would make yoor immune system work harder. If you are well controlled your immmune system is pretty much like everyone elses, with the exception that it ate all your islet cells of course ;^) I do find it can push up my BG's though which 'could' be what is happening to you, what are your BG's when this happens ? higher, lower ?

Mar 16, 2010 NiVZ 82 posts	Topic: Site Development / Meter Upload Development Hello, Not had a chance to do more testing, but I have received the papers from Lifescan to sign to give me access to the UltraSMART protocol, and Bayer have kindly donated me a Contour USB to see if I can get it working too. NiVZ

Mar 16, 2010 NiVZ 82 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Bayer Contour USB Meter Hello I've read that Ruby is corss platform and that theres a serial library for it. Simon, I think you mentioned you had done a bit of Ruby programming. Not sure if that would be an option? To be honest I've not got any Linux programming experience so it would be a big task to try and figure all that out. I know a lot about Windows and have done plenty of programming and it's been a big challenge getting it to where it is already. Using the AutoIT language was purely for convenience. It's very like Visual Basic syntax, great for rapid prototyping, we use it at work a lot and someone had already started a Serial COM programme so all the pieces just came together at the right time. I'm open to suggestions though and happy to help anyone else get as far as I have if they fancy giving it a go. Figuring out the meter 'language' was the hardest part but once you get it you just basically make sure the meter is ready (initialise) and then ask a question (transmit) and get a reply (recieve) and when you're finished end (disconnect). I've added some extra stuff like trying to automatically figure out which COM port the meter is connected to so that the program is easier to use. NiVZ

Mar 15, 2010 Rachie Wilson 9 posts	Topic: General Discussion / How good is dafne Hi Vic I do suffer from some hypo's but i usually know when my bloods are dropping as i get really bad headaches. Mine tend to be mid morning or mid afternoon but I have only been on DAFNE since Jan so still a bit of trial and error to be honest. I also do tend to get high's on a morning only and then for the rest of the day I am fine. I really didn't expect my HBAC1 to have dropped that much in such a short time but i am really pleased that it has. I am back for a review tomorrow with the group that did DAFNE in Jan so i am really looking forward to seeing how everyone else is doing.

Mar 15, 2010 Adam Taylor 1 post	Topic: General Discussion / Diabetes and minor illness I have been diabetic for about seven years now. In the past few years I have found that whenever I'm coming down with a cold or a minor bug, often a couple of days before any other symptoms, I'll find that I'm really tired - to the point of falling asleep at work or not being able to get up in the morning. The first couple of times this happened I went to my GP and he said that my immune system was having to work harder due to the diabetes so fighting the bug made me tired. Has anyone else ever experienced this?

Mar 15, 2010 nbraidwood 2 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Advice on sugar levels after exercise Thank you all for your input. From reading all your responses I think I have the answer. I tend to exercise around 6pm, which is more than 4 hours after my lunchtime QA insulin and just before my split background insulin, so the answer is that I don't have any insulin in my system to handle the energy my body pumps out. I'll try out giving myself a small injection beforehand (assuming my sugar level allows) and see how I get on. For those of you interested I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks again all......

Mar 15, 2010 qprfcmark 3 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Lantus Lasting 24 hours? Diabetic nurse advised me to split the 22 units of Lantus at 22:00 into 2 separate doses of 12 units at 22:00 and 10 units at 08:00. The results were instant and the BG levels at 18:00 & 22:00 are now on target, so Lantus is now lasting the 24 hour cycle! Regards Mark.

Mar 15, 2010 vic demain 87 posts	Topic: General Discussion / How good is dafne Hi, I have probably worded it wrong. We were told on the course that there shouldn't be the need to test more than four times per day, and not to test just for the sake of it. Of course if one feels low then it would be natural to test and confirm. Not concerned about my Lantus running out before the 24 hrs, as I have morning hypo's as well as the occasional high. Fay, I think a one unit adjustment pen would be good for me thanks. Rachie, glad all is going well for you and congratulations on the great results. Given such low overall figures, do you suffer many hypo's? Regards, Vic.

Mar 15, 2010 Rachie Wilson 9 posts	Topic: General Discussion / How good is dafne Hi I have been on DAFNE since the middle of Jan this year and my HBAC1 was 8.3 just had my HBAC1 done again and it has come down to 6.6 which I am really please about. I really didn't think i would be able to get my HBAC1 down as i always seemed to stick between 7.7-8.3 and have been now for the last two years. Thanks to going on DAFNE i have managed to get it back into target.

Mar 15, 2010 marke 655 posts	Topic: General Discussion / Advice on sugar levels after exercise Hi, You don't say when you are exercising in relation to your injections. You are not experiencing an 'artificial high' as Alan says its your body pumping out 'energy' for your muscles to use that causes the high and without insulin to make use of it, it stays in your blood. The issue may be that your QA has worn off and so your don't have any insulin to help 'process' the blood sugar. Correction doses after exercise are not a good idea. The effects of exercise can last upto 24 hours afterwards and as soon as you put insulin into your system all that blood sugar can then be used lowering your BG. Thats why its recommended that you reduce your BI before exercise. Without the missing info its hard to give any advice, the same goes for Debs, when you say you exercised before breakfast, is this before any injections ? if so that would make sense for the reasons above, no insulin to process the blood sugar. you have to think about the insulin profile ( its in the DAFNE handbook) and the effect it will have on exercise and food intake. Its important to remember the after effect of exercise as well as this can catch you out hours later ( or even the next day).

Mar 15, 2010 marke 655 posts	Topic: General Discussion / How good is dafne Vic, I am shocked your were told only to do 4 test per day. I was told to test as many times as necessary and to test more if I'm ill or changing ratio's etc. I was never told that there was 'no need to do more'. If ever you feel low then do a test regardless of the number you have done already. With regards to hypos, it does sound like your background was not correct. I suspect the morning high results are due to the 'dawn phenomenon' (see posts in 'Questions for HCPs' forum), I like probably many other people have the same issue with morning BG's. The problem is BI is probably not going to fix the issue. I won't replicate the discussions here as it has been covered on the other forum. Is it possible to split Lantus into two doses ? Maybe a question for your Diabetes team, I am on Levimir and find it much better now I have split it too two doses one in the evening and one in the morning. I know BI is supposed to be largely even over 24 hours but the reality is often different and splitting it may help resolve the issue, but thats something to decide on advice from experts ( rather than other graduates)

Mar 14, 2010 danny mcgeehan 2 posts	Topic: General Discussion / What meter are you using? Optium Xceed