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Nov 21, 2010
JayBee
587 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues Hiya M,I spoke to my DAFNE nurse and she has asked me to (this is the best I can remember of it anyway): ~Try to ignore the ketones for now because I am not officially ill - especially when my sugar levels were being as good as they were. Sometimes your body releases ketones in response to lack of food or exercise so try not to worry for now. If they go over ++, then respond because harm is more likely. ~Put my BI dose times back to 7am and 9pm. It would be very unusual if my BI was running out around the 12 hour mark - it commonly runs for a lot longer than that so put it back to see what happens. ~Put your BI doses both up to 10 and see how it goes. I have posted my most recent results and as you can see, this morning I've hit the ++ ketones - so I have responded with sickday rules. I also have more indication of having a cold now but I know I also got very angry and stressed out yesterday because of how stupid and incompetent banks are(!). Perhaps the stress encouraged the cold to push harder finally... I have sneezed occasionally this past week... but even now, I don't feel particularly rough. Being ill was the last thing I needed. -_-; I'm running out of time before my time of month - and I have a motorbike test and a car test to get ready for. This is going as well as my holiday planning (what really annoyed me last night). Must concentrate on calming down.... I am very very hungry now (it's 10.56am) so I'll go do that. *does bloodtest, scoffs some jellybabies and grabs some breakfast* 3.7! I finally see a hypo! This might be a turn over! Explains my morning grumpies too! LOL YAY! *hungrily eats her yogurt and porridge* XD Obviously, me adjusting for the ketones does skew the patterns for me so I don't know what to think today. I will apply hypo rules though and see how the day goes by. I will update my nurse later today (though she is aware of this thread too) so she can apply any more advice if needed... What time was the 13 blood result in the morning? It may still be coming down... what was your BG before bed? If you like and want to give your body the three day period to get Lantus properly on board, post your three days worth of results and we can do a full look over.  That's a relief to know your feelings on C-Sections. I guess that the fact I've not had any major operational things like that before, I just don't have a good picture of how it is. Your determination to have another little un' is very admirable for me to read. Maybe one day I will bite the bullet and wait for "the ride" to start (!).Sometimes my diabetes reminds me of that Chinese Curse phrase: "May you live in Interesting Times". Seems quite apt for all these problems lol. ;P |
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Nov 20, 2010
MelissaF
56 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues Hi J,I've had a look at your diary (thanks for that) and it's a bit strange isn't it? Apart from forgetting your breakfast QA, your BG readings haven't been that bad at all so I'm puzzled as to why you've been getting the keytones. Did you hear back from your nurse at all? Let me know what she says. Apart from the keytones though, it seems like your BG levels are lowering themselves generally so I guess the increased BI is working? What do you think? I woke up at 4am today (or rather my son woke me up!) so I did a blood test then and it was 15 (not because of an earlier hypo). I wasn't sure whether I should correct it or leave til morning to see what happened. In the end I couldn't get back to sleep because I was worried about it being too high so I gave +2 to correct. Still woke up at 13 though so the mornings are still too high. However, it's only my 2nd day back on the Lantus so I'll give it another day or so before I panic. I don't remember mornings being this bad before on the Lantus so maybe it's just an adjustment period whilst it gets back into my system again. Yes pregnancy is hard work and the highs are scary, however, as I said, it affects different people in different ways so there's no guarantee you would have the same issues at all. We had a tough start but I now have a gorgeous, healthy little boy so, yes, it was totally worth it. You'll understand that I'm slightly nervous about doing the same again though. Yes it's definitely worth making sure that you plan a pregnancy. Get your control as good as you can before you start trying. Also, make your contacts aware that this is what your planning and find HCPs that can stay with you through the planning stage stage and then throughout your pregnancy. One of the problems that I had was that a lot of the high risk ante-natal team weren't too familiar with the DAFNE regime and it took a lot of convincing that this was how I wanted to manage things. Now I think most hospitals have diabetes teams who also cross over into ante-natal care so you have contacts who can support you for both. Also DAFNE is much more widespread so many more people are aware of it. Also, just to reassure you... I've heard a lot of negative press for C-sections but, from my own personal experience, it was a really straightforward experience and I would be more than happy to repeat it. I started off my pregnancy wanting the natural birth thing (as I'm sure everyone does) but by the end of it I just wanted the quickest and safest option and it was absolutely fine. If it does happen to you at some point, I'm just saying don't stress about it - it's not a big deal. Anyway, I won't waffle on. Good luck with banishing the mysterious keytones! M xx |
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Nov 20, 2010
Guy
3 posts
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Topic: Site Development / DAFNE Online iPhone application - help with content/design needed Hi SimonI have recently joined DafneOnline.co.uk and am really impressed. I am an avid IPhone user, and like everyone in these forums had been looking for a DAFNE BG diary app. This app delivers! I have a few suggestions for improvements: 1) the app on my Iphone is not displaying all the data which is shown on the DafneOnline site. Perhaps a synchronising issue? 2) a page in the app to show which version is installed 3) perhaps an extension of the CP list, to allow selection of items from the list to calculate your total CP for that meal, and to store the foods consumed at each meal for future revision. Many thanks for providing such a great app. Guy |
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Nov 20, 2010
JayBee
587 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues You're welcome - no reason to go without a treat hehe! ^_^If it has disappeared, from the sounds of things, you'll be able to access the guidebook eventually. Might be worth asking your team if they can get you a new copy - I know I would if I'd lost mine.... Say, actually, I think that if I did lose it - once I had access to the guidebook on here, I'd print off the pages and put them together in a Project Folder. Considering marke has hinted that the guidebook will be updated at some point, I may look into doing this myself! Golly, that does sound like a lot of diabetic hard work - but I'm guessing it's all worth while considering the result? I'm mostly scared of having highs and then having to have a cesarean section - the whole idea of it frightens me.  I know my partner would probably like to be a Daddy so I'll keep your words in mind if we decide to try for one. I know I'll definitely have a planned pregnancy... my fears have made me so cautious (which my partner is thankful for which is nice).I'm sorry to read that a HCP said something like that to you. Wasn't very helpful at all - especially if you're in hospital mainly due to a pregnancy! I'm guessing they didn't fully understand what was going on... hopefully you won't meet anyone else like that - especially for your second child. I've emailed my DAFNE nurse yesterday so I'll also be seeing what she thinks about my plan of action that I've taken so far. Edit: Things have started playing up again.. ketones are + already! I've shared my DAFNE diary with you MelissaF so you can look at it before I post results here. Have a nice weekend M! |
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Nov 20, 2010
Simon Heller
46 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / wound healing Hi Helen. As a non-expert that seems a v sensible plan. These kind of wound problems can linger on but clearly giving it one final time to heal and avoid further surgery is v reasonable.Hope it goes well, Simon |
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Nov 19, 2010
MelissaF
56 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues Good tip on the biscuit - thank you!I may well have had a guidebook. In face I'm sure I probably did but I just don't know where it is. As part of my getting organised I will try and find it. Makes perfect sense about not having DAFNE information readily available but I will email Marke as he suggested so should be able to access info via this site as well. I have to be honest and say that I had a really difficult time in pregnancy from start to finish. However, having said that, I have heard of several Type 1s who had a pretty straightforward time so don't worry too much about it. What will be will be. You do have to be ultra careful (but you obviously are already) and, in the later stages of pregnancy, your body starts resisting the insulin so you have to start upping your doses massively. With me, this changed on an almost daily basis so it was really hard to keep track of. I think the hardest thing is just the sense of guilt you feel when things aren't going too smoothly because everything you're doing is having a direct effect on the health of another person as well as yourself. It doesn't help with judgemental HCPs either. I'm certainly not including all HCPs in this description as many were absolutely fantastic. However, for anyone working in high risk ante-natal care, please note that saying "you wouldn't be in hospital if you could manage your own diabetes properly" to a very ill and very stressed pregnant diabetic lying in a hospital bed is not the patient care to be recommended. If I hadn't been so ill at the time I would have stabbed her! Sadly I didn't even get her name. Anyway, suffice it to say that I want to get my control as good as I possibly can before attempting this for a second time - hence my irritation with my lask of success on the Lantus! |
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Nov 19, 2010
JayBee
587 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / wound healing Best wishes and good luck HelenP! |
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Nov 19, 2010
HelenP
218 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / wound healing Further update. Went to the Plastic Surgeon, short discussion re hazards etc (original surgery not 100% successful!). He then asked to have a look and his comment was effectively that the "hole" was much improved and that he wanted to see me again on 1/12 to confirm that he will do the surgery on 14/12. So bottom line is I am booked in for the middle of December but if it has healed as much as it has in the last week (and if there has been no "leakage") he will not operate. Wish me well. HelenThanks Guys. |
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Nov 19, 2010
JayBee
587 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues (My past two days worth of results are the last post on page 4 of this thread if you'd like to go look! )Yay Mel! Sounds like there's improvement already! ^_^ If you get offered a biscuit - some times I take one, check what it will be on the packet and then put it in my lunchbox for later - could consider doing that when a friend offers! Great work for keeping to controlled testing times! You'll be back on track in no time! However, give your body 24 hours to recover from a hypo - especially if you had one over night. You do this by not doing any corrections, okay? This may also be the cause of the second hypo before your evening meal. Besides that, keep up the good work! Be sure to keep an eye on those over night hypos - concentrate on those first if they keep happening (check at 3am for them - usually it's just your BI acting at that time).Golly - you don't have a guidebook?! Blimey! Where exactly did you do your course? It might be worth dropping a message to one of the admin on this site so you can see what they can do for your situation. Saying this, you might find your new DAFNE team can provide you with a code. (I've just spotted marke's post so all's not lost! I look forward to seeing the updated guidebook marke! )The reason we have the code in place is because the DAFNE guidelines can be dangerous to someone without prior education. Once you've done the course, you ask the course organiser or your DAFNE nurse for a code which you then can input into this site to open the online guidebook for you. Considering this is in place here, I'll be very surprised (and a bit worried!) if you could find it easily online generally. Ah ha! To quote the disclaimer on the online DAFNE Guidebook:
I've just checked my guidebook for Novorapid as well and it is a Quick Acting Analogue insulin like Humalog. I will quote the section from the DAFNE guidebook:
So NovoRapid can work between 2 - 5 hours as well as Humalog. My time of the month at one point did make me have to put my BI up by about 2 units but considering how unreliable my control has been, this has been difficult to decipher correctly. If I have finally got everything sussed (I think after this change I've applied today, all I will need to do is put my Morning BI up by one or two units - shall see), I will do as my DAFNE nurse suggested and only correct over my monthly time to try and work out what happens and what changes I need to apply. I have about a week to go so not long before I will be eventually finding out! Not sure about tiredness, but stress is a well known factor for putting sugar levels up in most people (I often find it does for me) - but this is again, something that varies from person to person. I will see if there's a DAFNE guidebook bit... nope, can't see anything and I did a search! There is a section on pregnancy which I'm sure you'll be interested to read:
Quite fascinating for someone like me who's not been pregnant - and has spent most of her life being too scared to even consider having a kid. How did you find having your first lil'un Mel?
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Nov 19, 2010
marke
686 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues Melissa, just email us using the link at the bottom of each page telling us your name and the DAFNE centre you did the course at and we can get you verified as a graduate. The easiest option is to get your centre to give you a code, but if that is not possible then there are other ways !! You will then be able to access the online handbook which we will hopefully be updating soon to the latest version ( when we get sent it). |
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Nov 19, 2010
MelissaF
56 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues Hi J,Back on the Lantus today (the relief!) - 12 units last night based on what was my usual dose previously. You and Garry will be very proud of me - I only tested before each meal, washed my hands every time and didn't snack between meals (even though my friend offered me some delicious biscuits!). Woke up at 14.1 (but then I had a hypo last night so may have been aftermath of that and usually takes 3 days for full Lantus results to kick in apparently - although I think it may have been faster with me). Corrected with +2 at breakfast. BG levels before lunch were 5.2 (yay!) and then was hypo (2.9) before evening meal. This may indicate that Lantus dose was too high as I was pretty accurate calculating lunch CP but at least it wasn't too high which might have meant that the Lantus was running out. Obviously that's one of the things that I'm going to be watching closely so we'll see how it goes. I did my DAFNE course 3.5 years ago and I think that I'm definitely rusty on a lot of the principles. Along with everything else since having a baby, a lot of it seems to have disappeared from my brain. I'm going to go back over the information (if I can find it) and refresh my memory. I'm not sure if I got a handbook. If I did I can't remember for the life of me where it is but I guess I can find it all online. With me it's very much a case of trying to take more time and care over everything and to do it all properly. Like everything else though this has become much harder since having a kid (maybe this is just me though!) I can't get in touch with the centre where I did my DAFNE course so I can't get hold of their code to confirm me as a DAFNE graduate so I can't access any of that information on this site at the moment. Would you mind letting me know the action of my quick acting insulin if that's OK? I'm on Novorapid. By the way - I know you said that your time of the month affected your readings badly (by how much?). Do you find stress or tiredness have a bad effect? I think that those are major factors for me, particularly stress. I understand what you said about accepting that you were on Levemir and being determined to make it work for you. I think I just need to find out whether Lantus was really the worse option though and I think that the only way I can do that is to go back on it and compare results. After all, you were having problems with the lifespan but, if that isn't a factor for me then I guess it may be a perfectly good option. Diabetes seems to be such an individual thing that everything seems to differ massively from person to person. I have read loads of stories of people who have found Levemir hugely helpful but I did also find a few who hadn't got along with it at all. Maybe I'm just one of those people and, if that's the case and there's another viable option then maybe it's just not for me. You've definitely found out that the Lantus doesn't suit you so I think you're absolutely right in putting all your efforts into finding another option. How have your results been? Looking forward to seeing them. By the way - my worst starving hypo experience was eating stale bread (and actually enjoying it!). M xx |
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Nov 19, 2010
JayBee
587 posts
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Topic: Site Development / Online BG Diaries Edit: D'oh! Jennifer Iden already beat me to it! Consider me a second vote for ketones please! ^_^Original post: Would it be possible to add a dedicated bit for ketones? They are key for when you're ill and having the dedicated bit may even jog memories to test for them when diabetics are looking for help here! Sorry in advance if someone has already suggested this! |
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Nov 19, 2010
JayBee
587 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues Okay! Results are up! With as much detail as I can manage!What's our thoughts on my decision to change the timing of my Evening BI dose from 9pm to 7pm? I am very curious! :3 Be sure to be aware of the Ketones! Speaking of ketones, I think we should have a detail bit for it.... ketones are very important for when you're ill. |
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Nov 19, 2010
Dr Jez McCole
11 posts
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Topic: Site Development / DAFNE Online iPhone application - help with content/design needed Simon, this app is just too good to not go trans-platform and if that means we lobby for funding from the NHS via the DAFNE course organisers or from DiabetesUK to pay for your expert time to make it happen then that is what we do. From the perspective of a Dr working in diabetes and commissioning services for diabetes as well as from the perspective of a patient living with diabetes this app needs to be available to all the 250'000 people in this country who could be applying DAFNE principles with their mobile phone.Simply excellent work Jez |
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Nov 19, 2010
ThunderBolt
28 posts
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Topic: Site Development / DAFNE Online iPhone application - help with content/design needed Nice one Simon. Absolute star!Connections all sorted, carb lists are ace... Faultless. I just need to get rid of half the bumph the kids install on their visits now and I'm done! |
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Nov 19, 2010
JayBee
587 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues Hiya M,I'm not sure how badly they affect, but I would personally put even baby wipes as problem causers along with any other wipes. I believe it mainly depends on what chemicals are on them and most of the time I really don't know what ones are good or bad (if any) so I'd rule them out as a blood testing cleaning option - but that is me. It's okay - we've been in the same boat at least a few times in our lives! I've lost count on how many times I've said to myself "I don't understand what's going on any more!" Even with your decision now to return to Lantus, remember that you'll still need to work hard to work out the Lantus doses, especially if there is the potential of your body's change in demand (which may have been the cause of the problems you were having towards the end of your last use of Lantus). If it helps you feel better, I did go through this sort thought pattern too but not long after it started I decided that "I'm on Levemir now, let's do this" and became very stubborn with it. I'm probably quite good at being stubborn when it comes to my control LOL. I look forward to when you've sussed it all M! You'll spend a lot less time feeling rubbish and find it a lot more easier to spend more time enjoying your family! ^_^ I don't know about being better than you, m'dear! I've only been on DAFNE for a year or so which might be assisting me with my understanding of the DAFNE regime. I know it's very easy to slip into a routine with controlling your levels generally (you'll see what I mean when I post my two day results here after 7pm today - I'm waiting for something to happen first! ) and this can aid in losing track of what you knew before. Daft I know, but we all do it! So easy to get angry with yourself too! ARGH!  I find it helps me greatly to carry my DAFNE guidebook with me - it may be worth you adopting this habit as well if you feel you are not 100% confident with your DAFNE understanding. You may need it for those times when you can't think straight because of a high or a low - helps you re-focus! Here's a good thing to remember when you're famished and you're hypo as well - you eat 2 fast and 2 slow - fair enough - and then IF it takes more than 5 minutes for you to feel better... wash your hands and do another blood test to see where you are. IF you're still hypo (below 3.5) then proceed to repeat the 2+2! It's what I tell myself when I'm absolutely gagging for food when low... and it does help (well, me anyway lol). Helps you stop attempting to over eat for your hypo. ;) Though I gotta admit, when pigging out while hypo in the past, it can be so lovely sometimes! XD Must be strong though, gah! LOL Looking at what you've said about your blood tests - firstly, well done for blood testing before each meal and before driving! When it comes to the rise up to 13.9 afterwards, this can be related to your BI running out. *has a quick look at your results posted on Page 1* Ah yes - assume that Levemir works up to 12 hours for you - Your Evening BI would have run out by then and so your Morning BI will be the only one working. Considering we're not 100% on how long your BI doses work for, this is a potential reason for this rise. The only way we could pin point indefinitely is to only eat exact 1:1 ratio meals (so no half units unless you have a half until pen for your QA) and see what your body does in response over the day (like my day where I was consistantly 10 for each meal). Obviously, this doesn't matter too much now considering you'll be changing over to Lantus again, however, if you get similar patterns with Lantus, keep this in mind. On that note, if you want to post your results once you're back on Lantus, you're more than welcome! Shall need to know a few things though - like working times of Lantus for you and what QA you're using - it'll help with the pattern finding, as well as your general understanding of your body's insulin demands! ^_^ I forget if I mentioned before, but I, as you know, use Levemir and my QA insulin is Humalog (which, according to the DAFNE guidebook *runs off and gets her guidebook out of her bag!*... works for around 2 - 5 hours. I'm pretty sure it works for 5 hours for me considering my most logical results are after 5 hours (as you can hopefully see from the results I've posted on this thread). The fact I had 10 at every meal is a pattern! It was telling me that I needed to put my BI up but I decided to target my Evening BI first and leave it two days to see how it goes. Not long now until my two days are up and I post my new results - has been interesting and I feel I have learnt something valuable if the pattern I got from yesterday (the day after the 10s and putting my Evening BI up by one unit) is the same today. I did get ketones again but I'm sure I'm going to get it all nipped in the bud now... Shall post them after 7pm! >
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Nov 19, 2010
Alan 49
284 posts
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Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Carb Free Breakfast The bread content in sausages depends on how much you pay for them: the cheaper sausages will have a higher percentage of bread - that's why they are cheap. The more you pay the more meat you get and therefore the less bread. It's always worth checking the package to get the carb content.Alan |
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Nov 19, 2010
Garry
328 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues I love cooking.Worst errors arose when preparing something, putting it on the table and then thinking...Doh...havn't done blood...getting a wacky result and then washing hands - repeating blood test and getting the expected BG. So that's what set me investigating. Even found that unless my hands were perfectly dry that errors crept in. Reading your replies above reminded me that one of the best things that I have done since DAFNE is not overCPing after hypo. I was a villain for too much carbohydrate... go downstairs at 03:00... test to confirm hypo and then have two glasses of milk and three biscuits... result... well you know the result... BG 13 - 15 with a worst case 21.5. Regards Garry |
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Nov 19, 2010
karaway
7 posts
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Topic: Carbohydrate Counting / Carb Free Breakfast The filling in sausage is a higher percentage fat then anything else and should not be counted as carbs |
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Nov 19, 2010
HelenP
218 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / wound healing GP not prepared to go out on a limb. Wants me to do what the Plastic Surgeon says! GP would be happy to wait for 6 weeks just to see if it closes over without intervention but basically is encouraging me to have it dealt with as it is nearly 6 months! There are differing opinions as to whether or not it has actually closed over. (The "yellow" cannula is very fine (26 gauge(?)). Not sure what I have to gain by having the surgery! What ever happens the hole I will get is bigger than the one I currently have! I am really tempted to leave well enough alone! Helen |
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Nov 18, 2010
MelissaF
56 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Levemir issues Hi guys,Thanks Garry, you're right, I'm not always good at washing my hands before tests (probably because I test far too much as well as I've explained to J). I'll try to from now on and I'm going to test my meter with the control fluid as well just to make sure that that's all working OK. Can I just check, are all wipes not recommended? Can you use something like baby wipes or are they as bad for potentially throwing out your readings? J - everything that you say is totally correct and you're right. I am confusing my results by snacking/testing at the wrong times/over-correcting etc. I would like to say that it's because I've had diabetes for so long that I'm not as careful as I used to be but that's really no excuse as you've had it for just as long as me and you're so much better. I think that your point is valid though - if I'm ultra careful for a few weeks just to see how things pan out then there's no reason why I can't go back to eating snacks etc if I want to, once I can gauge better how to deal with them. That's what DAFNE's all about I guess isn't it really? The hypo and subsequent eating that you referred to was me giving into the ravenous hunger that usually accompanies a hypo for me. I know that I should really eat 4 jelly babies but sometimes I'm not thinking straight and I shovel in some biscuits as well! However, I'm afraid that I think I'd going back on the Lantus. I make an appointment today to see another DAFNE educator for another opinion and, when I got there, she was on a course and I was seen by a lady with no DAFNE training. Not her fault and she was very nice but I haven't heard back from the other two people I've left messages for either and I think I'm just going to stick my neck out and go with my gut feeling. The lady I saw today said that she didn't think that it was a major problem for me to revert to the Lantus for a bit. I said that if it didn't make things any better then I would go back on the Levemir and give it another go. I want to see if it makes me more stable and I'm going to keep a close eye on my evening readings to check whether I think it's not lasting the 24 hours. If it seems to be lasting then I guess there's no reason why the Levemir is a better option as the two insulins apparently work in very similar ways. I know that you're probably going to think that I'm wimping out but I've got a very very short period of time to get this right if I want to have another baby and I'm really not heading in the right direction at the moment. My motivating factor today was the fact that, for once, my blood sugars were relatively normal (7.9) when I woke up this morning. I had my usual 3 units of Levemir and a breakfast of 3 CP (weighed) with 3 units of insulin. I had to drive to pick up my son from nursery at 12.30 so I tested before getting in the car and my sugars were 7.6 so I thought fantastic, that's all worked today. When I tested for lunch an hour later it had jumped to 13.9 for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Weirdly enough I hadn't read Garry's post at that point so I washed my hands just to make sure and it came out the same. I can't find any reason why it should have done that and it freaks me out! At the moment, the only reason that I've got for using Levemir is that it might help and it isn't so I think I'm giving up. I will let you know what I find out with the Lantus though and see what happens. Having said that though, any support you need for your regime, please let me know if I can help. You obviously know far more that I do about the technicalities of it but if you just want a second opinion or just a moan every now and then please tell me. You've managed to get your BG levels stabilised (albeit at a slightly higher level than you want) so I guess you're closer to finding a pattern. Keep me posted and I'll let you know what happens with mine. M xx |
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Nov 18, 2010
grandma carol
61 posts
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Topic: Questions for HCPs / Help with BI Yes when I started the caurse I was on 20 and they told me to drop it to 14. But I was ill and realy on well very dizzy and BGs up in the 18 19 17 even 22 so when I went to the Doctors she told me to put it back up. I was changing my ratio and puting that back up and with not being well I just dident know ware I was at and what I was doing. So I had put it back up to 18 but now I am droping it as I am having hypos at night even when I have some CPs before bed. The only other factor with last night was that I was low all day untill I went to bed and Iwas 8.5 and I had 1CP but still went down to 3.9 at 2.30. THANK YOU ill let you know how I get on tonight. Wish me look haha. |
