JayBee
DAFNE Graduate
James Paget University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
587 posts
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caroline15 said:
Didn't people used to measure their body temperature to see when they are ovulating? (I feel old all of a sudden)
I've not heard of measuring it but I was aware of the temperature rise because I do notice it naturally sometimes (just gotta kick off those bed covers!)
It's so funny that we don't think of these things! Great thinking both of you! 
This has reminded me about breast tenderness that a lady from my DAFNE group said she took as a great indicator that she needed to put her insulin up - when should a symptom like that happen (if or when it does - I know I don't tend to get it myself) when it comes to ovulation? Is it during?
It's funny that you're saying about age caroline15... with all these babies being planned on the forum and the like, me sitting here with not much experience when it comes to that (besides having the period itself) I feel I'm among professional females!
I'm 26 - I'm surely not the youngest female posting on this thread surely? :-.
Does anyone have a Digital Basal Thermometer that they would like to recommend? If not, I'll go hunting. I did just check with my sister who's had three kids, but she never used one!
I think I will give this temp (or after a bit of research my Normal Basal Body Temperature) thing a go... It does seem that the Wikipedia Page about it is quite helpful. Do check out the chart they provide (see below):
This looks like it could be a great help.... or am I getting too carried away? Lol.
My body has been hinting that it needs two weeks recently for the pre-TOTM higher doses... perhaps the higher doses are for my regular time?
Whatever the answer, I'm really confused right now... time for me to do some temp checking me thinks!
My regime (updated):
Thursday (two weeks before the pill finishing tuesday) EVE: 16 BI
Friday MORN: 9 BI (have been having post-lunchtime hypos which I have established are not QA today).
Leave it until...
Thursday (first thurs after pill is finished) EVE: 11 BI
Friday MORN: 9 BI
Period starts late sat/early sun - only lasts a few days (due to pill). Leave it until...
Monday MORN: 7 BI (Failing to change to this can cause very serious hypos post-breakfast. This happens EVERY CYCLE without fail.)
Monday EVE: 9 BI
Then when the pill starts again Wednesday EVE I'm back to "normal routine" of 6 MORN BI and 11 EVE BI. (I'm now challenging this!)
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JackieB
DAFNE Graduate
St Columcille's, Dublin
3 posts
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Hi again,
Sorry I've been offline for a while. I have managed to regulate (well almost) my cycle by using Glucophage which is a medicine used by Type 2 diabetics for insulin resistance. We thought I may have some insulin resistance and that is why I was prescribed it. However, it worked to regulate my cycle which is what I use it for now.
I too am delighted to see this being discussed here. However, this is the HCP forum so I am hoping some professionals are reading this and that we may be pointed towards some research in this area or else encourage the instigation of research. Even a survey of how well females have got control in comparison to males(hormonal changes not as severe).
From some of the posts here I am realising that the hormonal influences impact not only my Basal insulin but possilbly my ratios too. Is that right?
Thanks to all who contribute,
Jackie
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caroline15
DAFNE Graduate
Harrogate and District NHS Foundation Trust
45 posts
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JWo said:
This has reminded me about breast tenderness that a lady from my DAFNE group said she took as a great indicator that she needed to put her insulin up - when should a symptom like that happen (if or when it does - I know I don't tend to get it myself) when it comes to ovulation? Is it during?
It's funny that you're saying about age caroline15... with all these babies being planned on the forum and the like, me sitting here with not much experience when it comes to that (besides having the period itself) I feel I'm among professional females!
I'm 26 - I'm surely not the youngest female posting on this thread surely? :-.
For me the breast tenderness has always come about a week before the period (along with the horrible moods). I tend to know I'm ovulating by the pain (endometriosis) which was about a week before the tenderness and 2 weeks before the period but things are all over the place at the moment.
I'm 46 and my daughter is 14 so we are both at the 'extremes' of menstruation - what a lovely combination lol
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Athena
DAFNE Graduate
NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde
52 posts
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Hi All,
This is great information. I still have not had a reply from the e-mail that I sent to the DAFNE people. I have since phoned and spoken to Sharon to ask if there was any research on gender splits in terms of success but there isn't. In fact there doesn't seem to be nay research on why people fail to get control on DAFNE. Sharon suggested that I phone the NHR inSheffield where there is someone commissioned to look at a course called DAFNE Extra. This doesn't exactly sound what we are looking for. It sounds like a refresher with added help in relation to motivation. I really would prefer a course that is to do with trouble shooting and has extra info on things like how to sort BI patterns and the hormones etc. However, I will let you know if I get a reply from the DAFNE people about hormones and the outcome of my phonecall to the NHR.
The info coming from all of you though is what is helping me most.I may try the temperature thing. This is really great!
I do find in relation to breast tenederness that this is when my sugars start rising and I have to start upping the BI.So amybe, if you get this, this might be a symprom that might make you think that it is now the time to up the dose.
I think what is also coming through is that we are all at different life stages and that cycles change during lifetime.
Like some of the younger peop le, I had irregular cycles when younger and now that I am perimenopausal, they are really regular. Being on th epill was different again of course.
I also didn't used to get breast tenderness, but this started in my 30's. I think it is not going to be one size fits all.
My friend also runs a site for parents of children with type 1 and they have fouond that their daughters had great control in childhood but lost it at puberty and are finding that they can't get it back. I think in genearl the dibetes professionals should be looking into this and discussing it with patients more. Until then. I hope we can all keep the topic going on the site and help one another out with this one.
I will be using the temperature chart provided as my next thing to try.
take care.
JWo said:
caroline15 said:
Didn't people used to measure their body temperature to see when they are ovulating? (I feel old all of a sudden)
I've not heard of measuring it but I was aware of the temperature rise because I do notice it naturally sometimes (just gotta kick off those bed covers!)
It's so funny that we don't think of these things! Great thinking both of you!
This has reminded me about breast tenderness that a lady from my DAFNE group said she took as a great indicator that she needed to put her insulin up - when should a symptom like that happen (if or when it does - I know I don't tend to get it myself) when it comes to ovulation? Is it during?
It's funny that you're saying about age caroline15... with all these babies being planned on the forum and the like, me sitting here with not much experience when it comes to that (besides having the period itself) I feel I'm among professional females!
I'm 26 - I'm surely not the youngest female posting on this thread surely? :-.
Does anyone have a Digital Basal Thermometer that they would like to recommend? If not, I'll go hunting. I did just check with my sister who's had three kids, but she never used one!
I think I will give this temp (or after a bit of research my Normal Basal Body Temperature) thing a go... It does seem that the Wikipedia Page about it is quite helpful. Do check out the chart they provide (see below):
This looks like it could be a great help.... or am I getting too carried away? Lol.
My body has been hinting that it needs two weeks recently for the pre-TOTM higher doses... perhaps the higher doses are for my regular time?
Whatever the answer, I'm really confused right now... time for me to do some temp checking me thinks!
My regime (updated):
Thursday (two weeks before the pill finishing tuesday) EVE: 16 BI
Friday MORN: 9 BI (have been having post-lunchtime hypos which I have established are not QA today).
Leave it until...
Thursday (first thurs after pill is finished) EVE: 11 BI
Friday MORN: 9 BI
Period starts late sat/early sun - only lasts a few days (due to pill). Leave it until...
Monday MORN: 7 BI (Failing to change to this can cause very serious hypos post-breakfast. This happens EVERY CYCLE without fail.)
Monday EVE: 9 BI
Then when the pill starts again Wednesday EVE I'm back to "normal routine" of 6 MORN BI and 11 EVE BI. (I'm now challenging this!)
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MelissaF
DAFNE Graduate
South West Essex PCT
56 posts
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Hi guys,
Sorry it's been a few days. Have had a 2 year old with chickenpox and don't really log on when I'm at home. Back at work now...
I think that all women are really different when it comes to stuff like this so it's probably totally impossible to generalise with things like breast tenderness. Personally it's something that happens to me 2-3 days before my period is due but I don't really get PMT too badly so I'm guessing it's a lot worse for some. Also, I'm sure that some women do experience it during ovulation as well. Also, I know that my own syptoms vary massively from month to month.
I guess if you chart your own cycle for a few months you may start picking up on stuff that's typical to you which you may not have noticed before. J - I think that a thermometer is just a thermometer so I guess it doesn't really matter where you get one from. I got a kit from Boots for about £20 but I think that you're probably just paying for the little book that you get with it rather than anything special about the thermometer itself.
From what Caroline was saying, it would certainly seem that her cycle follows what I understand the pattern to be... in that it's the Follicular phase that it variable with diffferent cycles and the Luteal phase that seems to be a more set 14 days from Ovulation. As it's the Luteal phase that seems to determine your increased insulin requirements then this should be a bit easier to work out if you're aware of ovulation.
Is Glucophage the same as Metformin? If so then yes it apparently can work well in regulating your cycle. If your increased insulin requirements are due to hormone levels then I guess that it may well even help with this as it can be used to lower insulin resistance (it can be used to treat Polycystic Ovary Syndrome where insulin resistance can be caused which, in turn I think can bring about Type 2 diabetes). We need feedback from an HCP on this though as I'm only guessing. Apparently it's pretty safe to use though and most docs will prescribe so definitely worth a go if you think it might help. My only tip would be that the standard Metformin can cause stomach upsets so best ask for the Metformin SR which is a bit gentler.
M xx
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JayBee
DAFNE Graduate
James Paget University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
587 posts
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MelissaF said:
J - I think that a thermometer is just a thermometer so I guess it doesn't really matter where you get one from. I got a kit from Boots for about £20 but I think that you're probably just paying for the little book that you get with it rather than anything special about the thermometer itself.
I've not had a chance to look into it but if any thermometer is good, great. I have a thermometer at home.
I plan to start my tracking next wednesday, so I start at my "normal" point.... Hopefully.
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JayBee
DAFNE Graduate
James Paget University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
587 posts
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I couldn't wait! After the work I've done for the past two weeks and today being my dreaded "bad hypo" time of my TOTM, I've taken my temp as well this morning! It was 35 C exactly!
Here's an update on my progress:
Thursday (two weeks before the pill finishing tuesday) EVE: 16 BI
Friday MORN: 10 BI
Period starts late sat/early sun - only lasts a few days (due to pill). Leave it until...
Monday MORN: 7 BI (Failing to change to this causes very serious hypos post-breakfast. This happens EVERY CYCLE without fail.) <---- today is challenging this!
Monday EVE: 9 BI ( am not convinced I need to do this adjustment now.)
Then when the pill starts again Wednesday EVE I'm back to "normal routine" of 6 MORN BI and 11 EVE BI. (I plan to challenge this still!)
I can't believe I've been on 10 MORN BI and 16 EVE BI for 2-3 weeks now!
I've not had much luck with some of it though because I've been living life which has meant some guesswork with treats and the like... and my workplace routine changing yet again which did result in some hypos. >_< Very annoying but I've not had a hypo over night so 16 BI must be the magic number!
Shall carry on checking!
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JayBee
DAFNE Graduate
James Paget University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
587 posts
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Anyone had any positive progress?
Thursday (two weeks before the pill finishing tuesday) EVE: 16 BI
Friday MORN: 10 BI
Period starts late sat/early sun - only lasts a few days (due to pill). Leave it until...
Monday MORN: 7 BI (Failing to change to this causes very serious hypos post-breakfast. This happens EVERY CYCLE without fail.)
Monday EVE: 14 BI (After a hypo first thing in the morning while still taking 16 BI, this seems to have done the trick to stabilising my BGs).
I continue the above doses.... until...?
As I've shown on the updated progress of my work towards TOTM understanding, since that change from that Monday of taking MORN 7 and EVE 16... I've now been on MORN 7 and EVE 14 for a couple of weeks now but I've yet to properly identify when I'm supposed to put it back to 10BI and 16 BI.
I have also been monitoring my body temperature every morning - It has been hovering up and down between 35C and 35.8C (35.8 was this morning)... I'm not sure when to make the association that it's my "time" considering the temp window is so small... but based on that chart from the wikipedia page, perhaps I should wait until I hit above 36C?
Considering I've also been regularly under the 36C... is this because of my diabetes? I know I'm infamous for being a very easily chilled person to others.
What do we think?
Thanks for any responses!
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Athena
DAFNE Graduate
NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde
52 posts
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JWo said:
Anyone had any positive progress?
Thursday (two weeks before the pill finishing tuesday) EVE: 16 BI
Friday MORN: 10 BI
Period starts late sat/early sun - only lasts a few days (due to pill). Leave it until...
Monday MORN: 7 BI (Failing to change to this causes very serious hypos post-breakfast. This happens EVERY CYCLE without fail.)
Monday EVE: 14 BI (After a hypo first thing in the morning while still taking 16 BI, this seems to have done the trick to stabilising my BGs).
I continue the above doses.... until...?
As I've shown on the updated progress of my work towards TOTM understanding, since that change from that Monday of taking MORN 7 and EVE 16... I've now been on MORN 7 and EVE 14 for a couple of weeks now but I've yet to properly identify when I'm supposed to put it back to 10BI and 16 BI.
I have also been monitoring my body temperature every morning - It has been hovering up and down between 35C and 35.8C (35.8 was this morning)... I'm not sure when to make the association that it's my "time" considering the temp window is so small... but based on that chart from the wikipedia page, perhaps I should wait until I hit above 36C?
Considering I've also been regularly under the 36C... is this because of my diabetes? I know I'm infamous for being a very easily chilled person to others.
What do we think?
Thanks for any responses!
Hi JWo,
Souonds like you are getting there.I can manage the first 2 weeks of my cycle okay now through experimentation.
It does require ignoring the step wise approach and cuttint doses drastically at my TOTM and then using those doses, sometimes w ith a slight increase for almost a fortnight. It is after ovulation when I increase doses that I am getting into a muddle. Just can't find BI to suit for that fortnight. The doses keep crepping upwards and it is so frustrating.
Haven't tried the temperature thing, but will out of curiosity.I can see when the BI drifts off though and I need more of it.
I hope DAFNE Extra will take care of this. However, this course will only be delivered in a few hospitals and is a couple of years away anyway, so we need to get this sorted.
has anyone asked their team at their hospital about this? I know one person did and was told that DAFNE doesn't cover this, but then the course doesn't cover the dawn phenomena and the idea of getting up in the middle of the night each night to inject short - acting but this seemed to be an okay area of discussion in post course meetings.
Anyway good luck all!
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JayBee
DAFNE Graduate
James Paget University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
587 posts
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Considering I'm currently going through the time again where my BI should be going up, with me now being on 7 Morn and 14 Eve, it seems the game has changed...
Looking at my current results, what do we think?
TOTM Temperature Monitoring results are in the comments of my Before Breakfast results.
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